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+--- Thread: Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） (/thread-12519.html)
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Raulsen - 2015-02-07
Hey y'all!
So, I found out a while back that I ended up passing the N2 when I took it this December, so now, I'm in the process of making preparations for N1. I've already ordered the whole of the 新完全マスター series, and as it stands now, I'm currently on the Core 6000 Step 03 deck on Anki. With a dictionary, I can understand practically anything I encounter, but I really would like to improve my vocabulary-- that is, vocabulary I can use without having to think about it. So far, the Core decks have been treating me great, with noticeably good results, but recently, I've heard about something called the "Core 10k"
From what I understand, iKnow never published anything past the Core 6000 point, right? So, if the Core 10k is a thing, is it just something other users have made using the existing word-frequency lists? Or is there something I'm missing. If anyone could explain this, I'd be quite grateful.
Next, I've heard about J-J decks in Anki, but I had a few concerns. First, I can use my children's J-J dictionary pretty easily, something like 大辞林 with the help of a J-E dictionary, and most of the time, if I can have a new word explained in Japanese, I'm usually able to grasp the basic meaning. Still, for J-J decks, is this something that's already out there in some form or another? Or this something where the user typically inputs material from their own studies? On that note, for those of you who do make your own decks (that is, decks based on materials you're going through), how do you usually arrange them?
Finally, I've also heard about a program called subs2srs. I'm not a big anime watcher by any means, but I do occasionally watch it every now and then, and paired alongside my others studies, I think certain series could make for "real world Japanese" practice. With that in mind, I'm relatively clueless as to how it works. Can you use this with any series? Only certain ones that have been subtitled in English? Plus, as far as I know, a lot of anime doesn't have 字幕 in Japanese, so where would the Japanese text come from? If this is all incredibly obvious, please excuse me in advance-- I'm much more comfortable with grammar than I am technology. Could anyone possibly give me a little bit of insight here?
Sorry in advance for the massive wall of text! Thanks a ton!
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - gdaxeman - 2015-02-07
Raulsen Wrote:From what I understand, iKnow never published anything past the Core 6000 point, right? So, if the Core 10k is a thing, is it just something other users have made using the existing word-frequency lists? Or is there something I'm missing. If anyone could explain this, I'd be quite grateful.The extra 4,000 or so words in Core 10k come from the Japanese Sensei app for iOS. There's something about it on the wiki.
Raulsen Wrote:Finally, I've also heard about a program called subs2srs. ... Can you use this with any series? Only certain ones that have been subtitled in English? Plus, as far as I know, a lot of anime doesn't have 字幕 in Japanese, so where would the Japanese text come from?You can use it with any video content that has matching subtitles in a text format, in Japanese (your target language), and optionally with an English one for checking. You have to search for the Japanese subtitles in sites such as D-Addicts for drama or Kitsunekko for anime (some more on the wiki). If you can't find the subtitles for a drama/movie/anime that you want, then you have to use another one that has them. It's easier to first find the subtitle and then go after the show than the opposite, exactly because of what you mentioned: a lot of video content doesn't have subtitles in Japanese.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - sholum - 2015-02-07
Regarding Core10k:
The information that iKnow used to make Core2k/6k (acquired from a third-party under and Open license, if I remember correctly), also contained approximately 4000 more words; along with other words from JLPT glosses, this full list was compiled into an Anki deck referred to as Core10k.
Basically, it's Core2k/6k plus a little under 4k more. I'm going all the way through it, just because I'm really lazy about making my own cards.
Regarding J-J definitions and cards:
Some people say that using J-J definitions is better for the growth of your language ability, assuming you can understand them. While some words, 慣用句, and such make much more sense with a J-J explanation; there's not really much of a difference (in my opinion) between learning with J-E versus J-J, assuming you're learning with context and observing the use of the word in texts or speech.
Regarding subs2srs:
This program is wonderful! It doesn't matter if you're using it for anime or not, so long as you have subtitles; if your Japanese is good enough to pass N2, you could probably make due with just Japanese subs, if you can find them.
If you have a DVR or capture card, or buy/rent DVDs or BDs, you can get the subtitles yourself; with the first... I don't really know, since I've never ripped data directly from a broadcast, but it's in there as a separate stream from the video (pretty much everything has subs: it's what they broadcast for the deaf), though I'm not sure if you need a special subscription with cable channels; for DVDs, just rip the files onto your computer, the subs should come with (do a search for a more detailed procedure).
Of course, you could always 'borrow' the files... There are some groups, such as Kamigami, that release quality subtitles, though the files generally aren't popular enough to stick around for long.
Hopefully that clears some things up for you.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Raulsen - 2015-02-07
Ah, awesome! That clears a ton up! Thanks a ton for the help you two!
Out of curiosity, does the latter part of 10k still have pictures and audio since it wasn't technically covered by iKnow?
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - gdaxeman - 2015-02-07
Raulsen Wrote:Out of curiosity, does the latter part of 10k still have pictures and audio since it wasn't technically covered by iKnow?It has audio from the Sensei app for the words and sentences, and the pictures were downloaded from Bing Image Search with a script.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Aikynaro - 2015-02-08
Subs2srs is great, but it comes with diminishing returns the better your vocabulary is. Making your own cards takes time, and if you know most of the words in a show you can end up harvesting only a few words per episode. Without specifically seeking out shows that have obscure vocabulary I was finding it difficult to get a worthwhile number of cards made for the effort put in by about the 6000 card mark.
Though it might be different if you got your first 6k from Core - a lot of words that show up in anime and such probably aren't the same as the ones that show up in newspapers. If your listening specifically needs work, subs2srs is definitely worth trying.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Helena4 - 2015-02-09
The best way to create those instant connections between words that you don't have to think about is J-J. It gets rid of the English intermediary and although it thus requires more effort to learn a word, it makes you understand it much more deeply in the process.
The only problem with making J-J decks is the branching process. This is when you begin to look up words in the definitions of the words your trying to learn creating several more cards that rely on each other in a long branch. This can be quite tiring, and it is quite difficult to tell which branches will be unhelpfully long, and which will actually be easy to learn from. Plus it requires you to learn from a point of no understanding towards a point of partial understanding, rather than the other way round, which is more logically how you learn. To solve this problem there are some great premade decks for J-J made by http://japaneselevelup.com. There are 3 levels Intermediate, Advanced and an Expert level still in production. They are all paid for, but since the Intermediate starts with only begginer vocab in its definitions and the Advanced starts with only vocab from the intermediate, they completely reverse the branching process creating a natural learning curve, and are thus invaluable in easing the J-J method.
The Intermediate really is made for Intermediate students, so if you consider yourself advanced you may want to buy the Advanced, though it may be useful to get Intermediate for reference, as it's sort of important that you know the stuff in the Intermediate deck really well to make full use of the Advanced deck, especially since they both also teach grammar.
Here's the links for the decks:
Intermediate: (read this one for an explanation of how these decks work) http://japaneselevelup.com/japanese-intermediate-1000-end-branching/
Advanced: http://japaneselevelup.com/jalup-advanced-1000-stage-1-final-training-solo/
Expert: http://japaneselevelup.com/jalup-expert-the-path-to-fluency/
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - ryuudou - 2015-02-09
Lets not advertise paid Anki decks when Anki runs a site based on free deck collaboration.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Helena4 - 2015-02-09
Dude, I'm not advertising. Its a real recommendation. Yeah paid anki decks can be a rip off and I never approved of ajatt's ones (or even the whole concept of paying for anki up until recently) but Japanese Level Up are straight with you, tell you what your getting, don't use spamming advertising on in your face marketing, give a simple fair returns policy, full support from the creator and actually give advice on there site about how to make J-J decks without buying their products which ais clear and easy to follow (unlike ajatts inspiring but ultimately not greatly constructive rambles).
The guy could've written a book but his whole philosophy is based around anki and acquisition rather than explanation so it makes sense for him to make an anki deck. If he had written a book you wouldn't have a problem but then you'd have to tediously process the sentences yourself, so why do you object so strongly to him offering you his original works in an easy to use form like an anki deck?
Sorry if I sounded a bit like an advert I was just trying to give a recommendation and clear up the poster's doubts about J-J.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Nayr182 - 2015-02-09
I also highly recommend japaneselevelup and his decks.
I personally used the japanese-english 1000 deck from his site. If it wasn't for japaneselevelup I probably wouldn't be still studying Japanese now. The awesome amount of free advice, articles, tips and community is more than reason enough to check it out.
The whole JJ process just didn't gel with me unfortunately, hence I created the Core5000 deck: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=12092
Lots of people do think the JJ decks amazing though, he puts in extreme amounts of effort in creating his material, and it is all of super high quality.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - ryuudou - 2015-02-09
Helena4 Wrote:Dude, I'm not advertising. Its a real recommendation. Yeah paid anki decks can be a rip off and I never approved of ajatt's ones (or even the whole concept of paying for anki up until recently) but Japanese Level Up are straight with you, tell you what your getting, don't use spamming advertising on in your face marketing, give a simple fair returns policy, full support from the creator and actually give advice on there site about how to make J-J decks without buying their products which ais clear and easy to follow (unlike ajatts inspiring but ultimately not greatly constructive rambles).He's offering the expert deck for 49.99 per 250 sentences. It's a rip-off. The reason he does it at all is because it's easy money. A book is a lot harder to do. Would you rather write a comprehensive textbook, or make 250 sentences? Arguably the lower price for the other decks there aren't worth it either unless it was for the whole chunk of 1000 sentences.
The guy could've written a book but his whole philosophy is based around anki and acquisition rather than explanation so it makes sense for him to make an anki deck. If he had written a book you wouldn't have a problem but then you'd have to tediously process the sentences yourself, so why do you object so strongly to him offering you his original works in an easy to use form like an anki deck?
Sorry if I sounded a bit like an advert I was just trying to give a recommendation and clear up the poster's doubts about J-J.
OP is not really asking for this. He said his J-J is going fine as said he had no current issues (he said he's using a Japanese children's dictionary (which is basically the secret to fun and easy J-J) and that he's been using it fine) all he did was ask a minor question about available resources, and for those who make their own decks how they like to arrange cards.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Helena4 - 2015-02-10
He said he had a children's dictionary not that he was a J-J master. He actually specifically asked if there were any premade decks. Also, yeah the Expert is currently quite expensive, that's because there are very few customers for it because most people are solid enough after the advanced to try making good J-J decks themselves, or use hos very cheap "One deck". If you look at the completed decks, they are offered in large bundles with other useful material like relevant kanji decks and more methodical guides to J-J all for a fraction of the price of buying all the sections of the deck alone. The advanced bundle even includes another sentence pack for specialist language. Those bundles are $89, which is about £45 from my perspective, which is cheaper that any Genki textbook, and if you actually look up the amount of raw example sentences in Genki books, its not 1000, which is the amount all decks offer.
Yeah obviously its easier to make an anki deck than a book but why would you want to buy something more cumbersome and more expensive like that? Plus youd have to wait for it to be piblished. If you actually read a few articles on the site you'd realise that he's really just trying to share his method and he's not just trying to make cheap money. Why is it legit to sell a book but not an anki deck? Your likeone of those people who couldn't deal with the prospect of ebooks andmp3s.
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Stian - 2015-02-10
But 25 US dollars is way too much for 250 cards. That side was good back when he was only selling personalised learning advice, but then came the AJATT attitude of selling virtual tat.
If you really need to use premade decks, then the core decks are the best alternative, since they're free and have 6000 example sentences, all with audio. I personally use a modified Core6k with the first 2000 cards removed, just to catch up after a learning hiatus without spending time creating new cards again (since I deleted my self-made ~6100 sentence deck)
Core 10k? J-J? Subs2srs? Advanced learning questions (二級合格） - Helena4 - 2015-02-10
The core decks are nice enough but are lacking in grammar. I preferred creating vocab-centric decks from drama transcripts and using premade decks that taught some grammar. I do like the Tae Kim Close deck and the Japanese for Everyone textbook.deck (I own that textbook and Genki ii). I used those rather than buying something like Japanese level up begginer deck which someone mentioned above; there are so many textbooks offering J-e exple sentences and so many quality j-e shared decks that paid for j-e decks aren't worthwhile in my opinion. But j-j is another more daunting matter.