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The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - Printable Version

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The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - simple - 2008-02-29

Hi

I'm looking to buy the "The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary (チャレンジ小学国語辞典), published by Benesse" as recommended by Khatzumoto on the AJATT site.

Looking on amazon I found these two books:

1: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/4828804498/ref=dp_change_lang/503-1949866-5825515?ie=UTF8&language=ja%5FJP
2: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A6%E5%9B%BD%E8%AA%9E%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8%E7%AC%AC%E5%9B%9B%E7%89%88%E6%96%B0%E3%83%87%E3%82%B6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E7%89%88-%E6%B9%8A-%E5%90%89%E6%AD%A3/dp/4828804773

Are these simply different editions of the same book? Has anyone bought either of these editions?

Thanks,

Sam

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - johnzep - 2008-02-29

I have the one from the second link.

I like it a lot.

It's all furigana and the definitions are clear and simple.

I haven't mined it too much for sentences to put into anki, I usually just use it for definitions to define new words on my cards. This is because the example sentences are usually fairly simple. (I find the definitions themselves to be more of a workout for my Japanese)

Here　are a couple definitions and sentences for anyone that wants to see a sample:

なつかしい　【懐かしい】　（形容詞）　昔のことが思い出されて、心が引かれる。　（例）アルバムを見て、小さいころを懐かしく感じた。　　
（and it would have furigana, which I'll type out -> むかしのことがおもいだされて、こころがひかれる。　アルバムをみて、ちいさいころをなつかしくかんじた。）

みゃくはく　【脈はく】　（名詞）　心臓が血をおし出すたびに起こる、血管の規則正しい動き。　脈。　{参考}　ふつう大人で一分間に六十～八十回くらい。　子どもはそれよりも多い。
(and the furigana　→　しんぞうがちをおしだすたびにおこる、　けっかんのきそくただしいうごき。みゃく。　ふつうおとなでいっぷんかんに六十～八十かいくらい。こどもはそれよりもおおい。

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - scout - 2008-02-29

I have the older design and really like it. Here's a review I wrote for it a few months back:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=27885#p27885

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - rich_f - 2008-02-29

I picked up the one in the first link when I was in Tokyo in November. I'm guessing that since you can't get it new from Amazon that it's out of print now-- looks like the second one was published in November... just after I left.

My なつかしい and なつかしい definitions are the same as johnzep's, but I'd guess the new version is probably just a touch more up-to-date. I'd say get whichever one you want, or whichever one is cheaper. It's a good dictionary.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - pm215 - 2008-02-29

If you're outside Japan http://www.bk1.co.jp probably has cheaper shipping (esp. if you're willing to wait for seamail), BTW.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - markl11 - 2008-02-29

rich_f Wrote:I picked up the one in the first link when I was in Tokyo in November. I'm guessing that since you can't get it new from Amazon that it's out of print now-- looks like the second one was published in November... just after I left.
Aha, now I promise this is the very last question that I will ask about that scanner pen of yours (I just don't want to buy another shiney gadget, only to see it gather dust after a couple of weeks!) - so, how well does your scanner pen scan entries from the aforementioned dictionary?

I am just finishing Heisig 1, and I am preparing to get AJATTing, so I will be gathering lots of sentences - the easiest way to do this is obviously just to cut and paste from the Yahoo J-J/etc., but I think the defintions are a little hard to fathom somethimes/the example sentences may be a little too tough.

So, I picture myself, scanner pen in hand, picking lots of example sentences and definitions out of a more useable (for a relative novice) paper dictionary such as the one mentioned in this thread.

So, am I being realistic - if I buy the dictionary mentioned here, plus the scanner pen, will I be able to just pick sentences out of a paper dictionary and put them into my SRS via the pen (given a little practice with the pen, as you have mentioned may be required) ???


Thanks again!

Mark

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - rich_f - 2008-02-29

OK, let me test the dictionary with the pen right here.
...
...
...
Hmm... I don't think the pen likes this dictionary very much. I'm not really sure what's going on with it. I haven't had any problems with other books, but I hadn't bothered to try this dictionary yet. If I had to guess, it would be all the little words in boxes and circles that this dictionary uses that are throwing it off. Also, all of the entries are in vertical columns, so that may be putting extra stress on the software, combined with the font this particular dictionary uses. It's a font where all the characters have uniform thickness strokes, so maybe the software is having problems with it. I dunno...

The formal ceremony comes first.
まず正式な式典が行われます。

Ok, that's out of the Kodansha Communicative dictionary. Got it to work after a few tries, because I haven't used it in the last 10 days or so. (Been obsessing just on RTK.)

formal adj. (9f cere~~ny)正式な,フオ}

It doesn't really like mixed languages, huh? I think maybe when the software encounters "unexpected" characters, it gets buggy.

Let me try just the sentences from the チャレンジ小学国語辞典...

... no, it's not working. The text is too crowded, I think, and it's confusing the scanner. Sometimes it'll read the wrong column, other times just the furigana...but it's a mess with this book. Maybe someone can try with a regular scanner/OCR combo?

This pen thing is better suited to textbooks and things that aren't so crowded, I think. I've scanned vertical text from a light novel, so I know it can do vertical. I'd still get this dictionary-- just be prepared to do some typing, unless you can find a better scanner.

If you're looking for dictionary sentences, there's always online options too, btw.

Ah, and if you're just looking to pick sentences out of the dictionary, use the excite.jp one-- it uses the kenkyusha dictionary. It's free, and it comes with translations if you want them.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - simple - 2008-02-29

Thanks for the info everyone.

I (THINK) I just ordered the second link version from http://www.bk1.co.jp by airmail. The shipping cost wasn't displayed so I guess I might get a nasty surprise when I see my bank balance... thats OK I like surprises.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - Codexus - 2008-02-29

I admit I hadn't thought of getting a dictionary for kids. That's an excellent idea to get started with a Japanese only dictionary. I just ordered stuff from amazon.co.jp this week so I'll wait a while (it's best to order a lot of stuff at once as there is a one time shipping fee of 3400円 for every order that includes books (when shipping to Europe))

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - vosmiura - 2008-02-29

I have the newer version and I really like it.

By the way if you're in the US you can get it quickly with fairly low shipping cost from Kinokuniya bookstores online. I got it for $34.05 shipped to CA, and took only a couple of days.

http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?W-NIPS=9982685562&AREA=02&LANG=J

rich_f, the pages on the dictionary are thin so the writing on the underside shows through. Try putting some white card behind the page when scanning.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - rich_f - 2008-02-29

Thanks for the tip, vosmiura-- I'll try it and see if it helps.
...
Ah, no, still won't scan cleanly. I'll see if I can find a software update for it or something.
...
Nope, no software update. I tried using it on text in the back, which was horizontal... no love. I think the pen has serious issues with certain fonts. It has no problems with the standard Japanese fonts, but the "sans-serif" or whatever you'd call it fonts don't seem to be recognized well. I'll see if I can dig up some more material with these kinds of fonts-- it could also be because the text in this dictionary is waaay tiny and crowded.

I'd be interested to see if anyone with a regular flatbed and OCR software has any trouble with it.
...

Okay, testing it with a book I found "Breakthrough Japanese" with a similar font:
日本の食べ物は好きですか?
あまり好きじゃないです?
That was the first try, and no mistakes.
...
Ah, tried it with one of my JLPT practice books with a more stylized version of the font-- and it totally craps out. (日本語パワーアップ series) So it looks to me to be a function of the font used, and a function of the developers going cheap on the SW development.

So yes, the scanner pen works... if you're using mostly textbooks and not scanning anything with a non-standard font. It won't work on this dictionary.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - pm215 - 2008-02-29

simple Wrote:I (THINK) I just ordered the second link version from http://www.bk1.co.jp by airmail. The shipping cost wasn't displayed
That is a slight disadvantage of bk1. On the other hand I get the impression that (at least for seamail) this is because what they do is actually pack the parcel up and then just charge you whatever the post office charged them for that parcel -- they don't have per-book and per-parcel fees the way amazon.jp does. (And amazon won't ship seamail at all these days.)

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - phauna - 2008-02-29

So what is the difference between this one:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/4828804773/ref=dp_change_lang/250-3227072-1661821?ie=UTF8&language=en%5FJP

And this one:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A6%E6%BC%A2%E5%AD%97%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8%E7%AC%AC%E5%9B%9B%E7%89%88-%E6%B9%8A%E5%90%89%E6%AD%A3/dp/4828804757/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

The first one (yellow) says it's 4th edition but a special design edition. The second (blue) one says it's 4th edition. So what's so special about the yellow one's design?

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - johnzep - 2008-02-29

チャレンジ小学国語辞典 (yellow)

チャレンジ小学漢字辞典第四版 (blue)

Smile

the first is a dictionary with primarily words and definitions.

The second is a kanji dictionary, I'm guessing if you look up a character, it will have the stroke order, lists of readings, example words and whatnot

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - simple - 2008-03-01

@ pm215

Yes thats what I thought. While it makes things a little uncertain its good that their not actually making a profit from shipping.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - nac_est - 2008-03-01

I too have the old version and I adore it! When I'm having problems understanding a definition from the sanseido online dictionary, looking for the same word on this dictionary simply enlightens me.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - splice42 - 2008-03-04

phauna Wrote:So what is the difference between this one:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/4828804773/ref=dp_change_lang/250-3227072-1661821?ie=UTF8&language=en%5FJP

And this one:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A6%E6%BC%A2%E5%AD%97%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8%E7%AC%AC%E5%9B%9B%E7%89%88-%E6%B9%8A%E5%90%89%E6%AD%A3/dp/4828804757/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

The first one (yellow) says it's 4th edition but a special design edition. The second (blue) one says it's 4th edition. So what's so special about the yellow one's design?
As johnzep said, the first is a word dictionary, the second a kanji dictionary. I have the kanji dictionary, it's quite nice. You can lookup characters by radical, reading and I believe stroke number as well. Each entry has readings, origin of the character, most have stroke order diagrams, then definitions, example sentences and compounds. Very useful.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - pockethook - 2009-12-11

simple Wrote:Thanks for the info everyone.

I (THINK) I just ordered the second link version from http://www.bk1.co.jp by airmail. The shipping cost wasn't displayed so I guess I might get a nasty surprise when I see my bank balance... thats OK I like surprises.
I just did the same but by seamail.
http://www.bk1.jp/product/02935835
I'm in the UK so according to their site it should cost 770-1080 since I reckon it's 1-2kg.
http://www.bk1.jp/docs/help/He-0201-05
As for time it's meant to take 1-3 months, or never. Has anyone ordered anything from here and had it shipped by seamail?

*Update* Just got an email from them saying the shipping is 1080円

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - pm215 - 2009-12-11

pockethook Wrote:I'm in the UK so according to their site it should cost 770-1080 since I reckon it's 1-2kg.
http://www.bk1.jp/docs/help/He-0201-05
As for time it's meant to take 1-3 months, or never. Has anyone ordered anything from here and had it shipped by seamail?
Yep, I periodically do BK1 orders to be shipped seamail to the UK -- never had a problem yet (the closest I got was when the company I was working for went bust between my placing the order for delivery to the work address and the parcel actually arriving. I had to arrange to collect the parcel from the administrators...)

1-3 months sounds about right, in as much as I'd be surprised if it was as quick as one month or as slow as three months. I never remember to make a note of how long delivery takes, though :-)

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - mikankun - 2009-12-13

vosmiura Wrote:I have the newer version and I really like it.

By the way if you're in the US you can get it quickly with fairly low shipping cost from Kinokuniya bookstores online. I got it for $34.05 shipped to CA, and took only a couple of days.

http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?W-NIPS=9982685562&AREA=02&LANG=J

rich_f, the pages on the dictionary are thin so the writing on the underside shows through. Try putting some white card behind the page when scanning.
I ordered mine from them too and it only took a couple of days as well. I was relieved since I was so close to placing the order at BK1.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - Hashiriya - 2009-12-13

i have the Bennesse 小学国語辞書 as well... i love it's easy to understand definitions and examples... i even started to enter sentences on Anki from it for about a month... but, after awhile, I decided that it would be much better to learn to read a dictionary such as Yahoo辞書 or whatever because I could copy and paste easily everything that I wanted to study... I have gone back to studying kanji and grammar for awhile before I go back into that.. i want to finish out the 常用漢字 readings and The Dictionary of Japanese Grammar (all 3 books) before I attempt to tackle that monster...

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - Nii87 - 2009-12-13

I've got the book too, but I just use it to read up definitions of words I don't understand (no SRSing etc). Half the time I don't understand the definition either, but I don't bother looking up the words in the definition.

The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary - LegionOfDeicide - 2009-12-16

simple Wrote:Hi

I'm looking to buy the "The Challenge Elementary School Japanese Dictionary (チャレンジ小学国語辞典), published by Benesse" as recommended by Khatzumoto on the AJATT site.

Looking on amazon I found these two books:

1: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/4828804498/ref=dp_change_lang/503-1949866-5825515?ie=UTF8&language=ja%5FJP
2: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A6%E5%9B%BD%E8%AA%9E%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8%E7%AC%AC%E5%9B%9B%E7%89%88%E6%96%B0%E3%83%87%E3%82%B6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E7%89%88-%E6%B9%8A-%E5%90%89%E6%AD%A3/dp/4828804773

Are these simply different editions of the same book? Has anyone bought either of these editions?


Thanks,

Sam
Go to yesasia.com. There you will find your dictionary and not have to pay 30+ dollars for shipping. I have that dictionary it is really good for a beginner. I am letting my girlfriend use it at the moment, but man that is a sweet dictionary. That website though has a free shipping deal. Just go to the site and check it out.