DrJones Wrote:Readings ending on -つ can sometimes morph to -ち.
立つ/立ち is an example, another common one is 一 (いつ/いち)

Tzadeck Wrote:

DrJones Wrote:Readings ending on -つ can sometimes morph to -ち.
立つ/立ち is an example, another common one is 一 (いつ/いち)

This is actually just a regular grammar thing, and doesn't have anything special to do with つ or ち. If a verb ends in つ, like 立つ, it becomes 立ちます in 'masu' forum. What comes before 'masu' is usually referred to in textbooks and a 'masu stem.' So 立ち is the 'masu stem' of 立つ. The masu stem is used grammatically in a lot of ways, but it's also used to turn verbs into nouns.

So, for example, the verb for 'to be different' is ちがう, and it's masu form is ちがいます. The masu stem, ちがい, is a noun that means 'difference.' It's also used a lot in nouns that are a mix of two words (usually kunyomi words). So かえる is 'to go home' (masu form is かえります), みち is 'street' or 'way,' and the 'way home' is かえりみち--which is a masu stem plus another noun.

Most of the time when you see つ become ち, it will be because of this. (For example, 立場 is pronounced 'たちば' which is the masu stem of 立つ plus another noun, 場. Basically the same as 帰り道, although the ち isn't written out in kana like the り is.)

Tzadeck Wrote:Most of the time when you see つ become ち, it will be because of this. (For example, 立場 is pronounced 'たちば' which is the masu stem of 立つ plus another noun, 場. Basically the same as 帰り道, although the ち isn't written out in kana like the り is.)

john555 Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:

DrJones Wrote:Readings ending on -つ can sometimes morph to -ち.
立つ/立ち is an example, another common one is 一 (いつ/いち)

This is actually just a regular grammar thing, and doesn't have anything special to do with つ or ち. If a verb ends in つ, like 立つ, it becomes 立ちます in 'masu' forum. What comes before 'masu' is usually referred to in textbooks and a 'masu stem.' So 立ち is the 'masu stem' of 立つ. The masu stem is used grammatically in a lot of ways, but it's also used to turn verbs into nouns.

So, for example, the verb for 'to be different' is ちがう, and it's masu form is ちがいます. The masu stem, ちがい, is a noun that means 'difference.' It's also used a lot in nouns that are a mix of two words (usually kunyomi words). So かえる is 'to go home' (masu form is かえります), みち is 'street' or 'way,' and the 'way home' is かえりみち--which is a masu stem plus another noun.

Most of the time when you see つ become ち, it will be because of this. (For example, 立場 is pronounced 'たちば' which is the masu stem of 立つ plus another noun, 場. Basically the same as 帰り道, although the ち isn't written out in kana like the り is.)

I was never confused by any of this because when I first started studying Japanese I used a book that uses kunrei siki romaji which lets you see the regularity:

kaku
kakimasu

matu
matimasu

tatu
tatimasu

cophnia61 Wrote:The confusion derives from the fact the "ち" of the masu form is not written as an okurigana, so there could be a likelihood that "たち" was just another lecture of the kanji himself. The fact it's a lecture for proper names triggered this doubt.

Vempele Wrote:

cophnia61 Wrote:The confusion derives from the fact the "ち" of the masu form is not written as an okurigana, so there could be a likelihood that "たち" was just another lecture of the kanji himself. The fact it's a lecture for proper names triggered this doubt.

The masu stem as a name reading thing is also very common.

yudantaiteki Wrote:BTW the term in English is "reading", a "lecture" is a classroom speech by a teacher (or something like that).

Okurigana is very inconsistent in Japanese; there are a number of words where the okurigana are normally omitted, like 受付, 立場, 行末, and such. Sometimes you see a word with both okurigana and no okurigana.