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+--- Thread: How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? (/thread-12204.html)
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How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - murtada - 2014-09-17
Also, would you say it's more "fun" or bearable than rtk?
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - MelonBerry - 2014-09-17
It depends on how much time you put into it.
Some people can get it done really fast, and others slow.
I, for one, am very very slow with anki. I like to take my time, and I do an easy amount of cards so it doesn't become stressful.
I think it's fun yes, but I also changed the card style so it's pretty.
Front : http://i.gyazo.com/a72f380f8fc5a8891b5b13554a532c64.png
Back : http://i.gyazo.com/8cc7509c423518b3ea40a824f6349725.png
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - yogert909 - 2014-09-17
I'm about halfway though core 6k and it's taken me ~400 hours of study, so probably around 800 hours give or take.
I think core is a little more enjoyable because I feel like I'm actually learning how the language works instead of memorizing symbols out of context. But it still feels like a drag sometimes.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Linval - 2014-09-17
I find the core decks extremely boring. I still progress through them though, but I have a sentence deck of my own composed of sentences I mined myself to kill boredom. I'm balancing my daily anki workload between those two decks, so I'm progressing fairly slowly through core. I also removed all the one-word recognition / production / english-to-japanese cards, because I found them redundant and unnecessary.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - JapaneseRuleOf7 - 2014-09-17
I'd say it's marginally more fun, and more useful, than RTK.
I'm a little more than halfway through Core 10K. I did 25 cards a day at first, but these days I can only manage about 10 new cards a day before I want to throw my iPhone out the window. I do no reviews, only new cards.
I still have dreams of doing like 100 a day, but at this point I'm pretty burned out with Anki, so I just do a few cards while I'm standing on the train or in line at the supermarket.
You might want to try it for a few days, see how many cards you're comfortable with, and then do the math. Overall though, it's probably best to approach Core by looking at how many cards you've done, rather than how many are left. It's not like you'll be "finished" after learning 10,000 words.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - john555 - 2014-09-17
Rather than spend hundreds of hours on anki, wouldn't it be more useful just to read as much as you can as often as you can?
I tried to use anki but found it was just too boring (look at screen; try to think of answer; hit spacebar and see if correct; select number re: difficult, easy etc.). Frankly I'd rather spend my time cleaning toilets than using anki.
Reading a variety of material is more fun.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - sholum - 2014-09-17
I can't say it's particularly fun, but it feels more rewarding than RTK by far; especially when you couple it with extensive reading and start seeing words you just learned show up in the text.
That being the thing: make sure to read as you go, more so if you don't plan on reviewing after you get through all the vocabulary; I've been going back through Core6k, because I realized I'd forgotten quite a bit, even of the set of words that I actually see in my readings. If you don't review and use the information, it will get buried.
@john555
I know there have been multiple arguments on this already (with your participation), so I'll keep it simple:
-Most people benefit best by a mixture of 'regular study' (word lists, Anki, etc.), extensive reading, and intensive reading.
-Most people (including myself) find slogging through a text, of which you can decipher nothing without the aid of a dictionary, to be extremely tedious and possibly even stressful. These mind-sets don't allow for productive study.
-Core10k (or Core6k, even) is a nice, pre-compiled list that will give one a good basis to transition to only extensive and intensive reading, if that is one's desire (I still find Anki mildly useful, like for going through the things I forgot, though it takes up much less of my study than it used to).
For those that don't like the desktop version of Anki and have an Android device, try using Ankidroid during commute, when you're waiting between classes, or otherwise bored and doing nothing. It takes almost no time at all and by doing it when you're bored, you don't get bored with it (as quickly).
I don't use the desktop version of Anki unless I have to (like for generating LaTeX images and such), because sitting at the computer to do Anki reps is boring.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Stansfield123 - 2014-09-17
murtada Wrote:Also, would you say it's more "fun" or bearable than rtk?The difference is that with RtK you had no alternatives: the only way to learn the Kanji was to do RtK, and drill it with Anki until you're blue in the face. Either that, or spend months bogged down doing RtK instead of learning Japanese.
With vocab learning, you can go at whatever pace you'd like with your Anki deck of choice, since there are plenty of alternative ways to make progress. Personally, I never do over an hour a day, and my daily average is under 30 minutes. It's slow, but it's fun. I doubt I'll ever finish Core10k though. I probably won't even get to the end of Core6k, I'll be fluent before that thanks to all the other things I do.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - vix86 - 2014-09-17
murtada Wrote:Also, would you say it's more "fun" or bearable than rtk?I finished the core6k in about a year.
Everyone's definition of 'fun' is different. I can be very OCD/hyper focused when I need too and I saw doing the core6k fun because watching the number of new cards disappear was rewarding. In addition, I was doing the core6k in Japan and the progress in the number of words I didn't know on signs, in conversations, or in light novels; slowly decreased and made doing the core6k more reasonable. The cards are boring, there is no getting around that, but the cards are small enough and simple enough to accomplish their goal.
I also used one of the n+1 optimized decks when doing the core6k and a lot of the katakana words were spread out in the deck. Katakana cards were like freebies on a bingo board. The knocked one more out of the 6k and were stupid easy to remember.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - yogert909 - 2014-09-17
vix86 Wrote:I finished the core6k in about a year.Everybody measures time by the calendar, but I think it's difficult to compare because different people spend more or less time each day depending on their schedule and goals. I would expect a person spending 1 hour per day would take longer then someone studying 4 hours per day. But if we all report the number of hours (anki makes it easy), I think we'll have a lot more consistent and useful answers.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Stansfield123 - 2014-09-17
yogert909 Wrote:Problem is, it will still depend on how much Japanese you already know, and how much you learn/reinforce with other activities, at the same time as you do Core.vix86 Wrote:I finished the core6k in about a year.Everybody measures time by the calendar, but I think it's difficult to compare because different people spend more or less time each day depending on their schedule and goals. I would expect a person spending 1 hour per day would take longer then someone studying 4 hours per day. But if we all report the number of hours (anki makes it easy), I think we'll have a lot more consistent and useful answers.
I, for instance, review Core vocab at a much faster rate than I used to review the Kanji. But that's because I know most of them already. If I knew nothing, and did nothing else in Japanese, I imagine reviewing vocab would actually go much slower than reviewing Kanji, and with much higher failure rates.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - yogert909 - 2014-09-17
Stansfield123 Wrote:That's a good point, but I still think reporting hours is more accurate and useful than reporting days, weeks or years. If they go on to add more detail, even better.yogert909 Wrote:Problem is, it will still depend on how much Japanese you already know, and how much you learn/reinforce with other activities, at the same time as you do Core.vix86 Wrote:I finished the core6k in about a year.Everybody measures time by the calendar, but I think it's difficult to compare because different people spend more or less time each day depending on their schedule and goals. I would expect a person spending 1 hour per day would take longer then someone studying 4 hours per day. But if we all report the number of hours (anki makes it easy), I think we'll have a lot more consistent and useful answers.
I, for instance, review Core vocab at a much faster rate than I used to review the Kanji. But that's because I know most of them already. If I knew nothing, and did nothing else in Japanese, I imagine reviewing vocab would actually go much slower than reviewing Kanji, and with much higher failure rates.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - s0apgun - 2014-09-17
10,000 notes in Anki divided by 365 days is 28 new cards a day. Its very reasonable to do Core10k in a year. I do 40 new cards a day and I still finish those plus reviews in under a hour everyday. If you're not hitting at least 500 cards reviewed within a hour you need to start increasing your pace. No, I am not an Anki superhero and I miss plenty of days of reviewing but I've learned how to increase my efficiency within a very efficient flashcard program. I don't spend more than a hour in Anki daily.
Will Anki make you fluent? No, not at all. You will be able to do in real life exactly what you do in Anki... look at a word and produce a definition. If you want to be able to comprehend Japanese you need to read A LOT. With that being said... I need to read more. I've been trapped within these learning regimes for too long.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - yogert909 - 2014-09-17
@s0apgun
If you don't mind, could you expand on how you were able to increase your speed? Whenever I try rushing reviews or add too many new cards per day, eventually things come crashing down and I feel like I've forgotten everything. For me it seems that peak efficiency is around 5-7 new cards per hour. Mind you, these are 5-7 words that I've never seen before, so it's not as if I've encountered them a few times while reading and just keeping them in my deck for fun. And that's not to mention that my memory is really bad. But I'd love to speed things along if you have any hard won tips you could share.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - s0apgun - 2014-09-18
How far into Core are you? It gets easier as you start to learn more of the common readings for Kanji and you can pick up on meanings faster.
Example of my card layout... I forget what the stock setup is for Anki mobile and Core10kv4 deck but I've tried to keep it as minimal as possible and remove all other distractions and variables from the reviewing. The removal of the spacing length when you pass the card was an important distraction I got rid of.
http://i.imgur.com/1aGUX9I.png
http://i.imgur.com/VaJgkAA.png
If you know the meaning and the reading of the card you press good. If you don't press again. My average card answer time is 3.6 seconds. I basically don't review the example sentence because you really don't need to beyond the first time reading it. Example sentences are good to help get a feel for the word but its useless for flashcards because that word won't become second nature without seeing it in many different situations when reading or listening.
My method is pretty simple drill the vocab and keep the pace up. Keep failing that card until you know it but don't spend more than 5 seconds on a card contemplating it, you either know it or you don't. I also use the suspend feature at about 10 review fails or so? I unsuspend those cards after a while to try to learn them again after learning new words.
I have often hit over 1000 cards reviewed in a hour with 80-90% retention on mature cards.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Nyanda - 2014-09-18
I'm currently on card 6,600 of the Core 10k deck, and so far it's taken me roughly 7 weeks of using Anki every single day without fail.
According to Anki I have spent a total of 86 hours on reviews, which makes sense since I spend roughly 1 hour every morning going over reviews of past cards and roughly 30 mins to 1 hour going over new cards in the evening.
I try to go over 100 new cards a day, although of course this may be more or less on some days.
For example I might only review 50 new cards one day then 150 the next depending on how much time I have.
So based on my own progress with the deck I think if you already know some Japanese (basic grammar, maybe some basic vocab) then it's more than possible to get through the entire thing in roughly 3 and a half months.
I agree with s0apgun about speeding up reviews, and I think this has a lot to do with how quickly I am getting through it.
According to Anki my average review time on any one card is 5 seconds, but in reality I think it's probably closer to 3 seconds because I kind of end up skewing my stats when I leave Anki open for hours on end when I get distracted by something.
I'm sure that if I spent 30 seconds per card for example I would get burnt out pretty quickly (except for new cards; those I usually spend 15 - 40 seconds on).
Also, I don't usually fail cards by pressing the もう一回 button.
Usually I give the card a few chances by pressing the 難しい button if I don't know it so I see it the next day, or a few days later, which works well for me because I usually remember them after that and it doesn't build up my daily reviews as much as failing them would (I usually have 300 - 400 cards to review every morning).
Keep in mind that the pace I am going though the Core 10k at I think is helped by the fact that I speak with my wife in Japanese every now and then (we still mostly speak English), watch dramas, movies, YouTube videos etc in Japanese, listen to Japanese music, read Japanese books and websites and email my parents in law in Japanese.
As for it being more 'fun' or 'bearable' than RTK, I would say that yes it is.
This is mostly because I can feel my comprehension of all things Japanese growing at a rapid pace, whereas RTK felt like I just wasted half a year of my life.
Having said that I do plan to go back to RTK after Core 10k.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Codexus - 2014-09-18
5 years now and still counting T___T
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Kuzunoha13 - 2014-09-18
351 hours when I finished adding the last few cards of Core 10k. I knew maybe a couple of hundred words before I started...I had also finished RTK up to the half way point, but quit when I realized the kanji I was learning rarely appeared in my Core lists, and I was doing fine without it.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Stansfield123 - 2014-09-18
Kuzunoha13 Wrote:351 hours when I finished adding the last few cards of Core 10k. I knew maybe a couple of hundred words before I started...I had also finished RTK up to the half way point, but quit when I realized the kanji I was learning rarely appeared in my Core lists, and I was doing fine without it.Assuming you continued reviewing, how many hours is it up to now (and how long has it been since you finished adding)?
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Stansfield123 - 2014-09-18
Nyanda Wrote:According to Anki my average review time on any one card is 5 seconds, but in reality I think it's probably closer to 3 seconds because I kind of end up skewing my stats when I leave Anki open for hours on end when I get distracted by something.Those hours aren't counted. I think by default the clock stops after 30 seconds of inactivity, which is pretty insignificant.
I still don't understand how you can average as low as 5 secs though. I can't average under 8 seconds/review no matter what I try. The only thing I haven't tried is giving reading only answers (instead of reading and meaning both). I am thinking about switching to that though. Is that something you're doing by any chance?
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Nyanda - 2014-09-18
Stansfield123 Wrote:Ah, I didn't know about the clock stopping after a certain amount of time.Nyanda Wrote:According to Anki my average review time on any one card is 5 seconds, but in reality I think it's probably closer to 3 seconds because I kind of end up skewing my stats when I leave Anki open for hours on end when I get distracted by something.Those hours aren't counted. I think by default the clock stops after 30 seconds of inactivity, which is pretty insignificant.
I still don't understand how you can average as low as 5 secs though. I can't average under 8 seconds/review no matter what I try. The only thing I haven't tried is giving reading only answers (instead of reading and meaning both). I am thinking about switching to that though. Is that something you're doing by any chance?
The way I review is to, as soon as the word shows, say the word out loud while simultaneously thinking of the meaning.
I don't have to think of the exact English translation, I just think of the meaning in a more abstract way most of the time.
I can't really describe it very well, but it's like how when I see the word 'Red' in English, I just imagine the colour red.
So I basically try to do the same in Japanese and imagine the colour red when I say 「赤」 out loud.
I usually hit the 普通 button before I've even finished saying it out loud because I usually get the answer right without any trouble at all.
If I then realise I got it wrong I just undo it and hit 難しい instead while saying the correct pronunciation, or imagining the correct concept.
So basically in the space of a few seconds I see the card, say the word out loud, imagine the meaning in whatever way I can (sometimes I imagine the translation for more abstract stuff), and hit the 普通 button all at once, only undoing and hitting 難しい if I see I got it wrong in some way.
I hit the answer buttons at such a regular interval it almost feels like I'm watching a slideshow of words and I have to shout out the answer before the next slide shows up.
I only hit もう一回 if I've consistently got it completely wrong (both meaning and pronunciation) 3 or 4 times in a row.
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Stansfield123 - 2014-09-18
Thanks, Nyanda, I'll give that a shot. Never thought of using "undo" like that.
Oh, I forgot: my answer has the audio for the word as well. Do you have that, and doesn't it cut off?
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Nyanda - 2014-09-18
Stansfield123 Wrote:Oh, I forgot: my answer has the audio for the word as well. Do you have that, and doesn't it cut off?Yes, the audio does get cut off quite a lot when I'm pressing the answer buttons quickly.
For the most part though I ignore the audio because it just adds more time to the reviews.
The only time I listen to the audio now is if I'm not sure about the reading in the answer or the example sentence.
In those cases I will listen to the audio for at least the word being tested, and maybe the example sentence too because in a few cards the generated readings have been slightly wrong.
The only one I remember is a generated reading for 風車 being かざぐるま when the sentence audio actually said ふうしゃ.
Granted かざぐるま is also a reading for 風車 but it seemed more likely to be ふうしゃ when I first saw it, so I listened to the audio to confirm.
The reason for ignoring the audio is to mostly speed up card reviews, but I also don't need it most of the time because I'm just using the Core 10k deck as a quick vocabulary boost so I don't have to use a dictionary with native materials so much.
I'm currently watching TRICK for my audio
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - yogert909 - 2014-09-18
Nyanda Wrote:Keep in mind that the pace I am going though the Core 10k at I think is helped by the fact that I speak with my wife in Japanese every now and then (we still mostly speak English), watch dramas, movies, YouTube videos etc in Japanese, listen to Japanese music, read Japanese books and websites and email my parents in law in Japanese.It sounds like you may already have some familiarity with the new cards that you are adding. Would you venture a guess as to how many words you already have some exposure to before adding?
How long does core2/6/10k take to finish? - Nyanda - 2014-09-18
Well the beginning 3,500 words were fairly easy for me to get through, although there were some new words that I had never seen before in there too.
So I would venture a guess that I knew roughly 2,500 - 3,000 of the words in the deck before starting.
After that point it got considerably harder due to the number of words I hadn't seen before; but despite that fact I have still managed to keep up the ~100 new words a day approach, and I'm seeing some very nice results because of it, which in turn keeps me motivated enough to continue with ~100 new words a day.
The only real difference between the words I knew before I started and the words that are completely new is the interval at which I review them.
For words I knew well in the beginning I selected 簡単 every time, but for new words I select 難しい a lot, which pushed my daily reviews up from roughly 200 - 300 to 300 - 400 instead.
So in short, although I knew some of the words before starting, I have still kept up roughly the same pace throughout the duration of the deck so far, and haven't noticed much difference, other than the words I knew before starting allowing me to hit the 難しい button a lot less.