+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Off topic (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-13.html)
+--- Thread: What age are you? (/thread-1220.html)
What age are you? - bcrAn - 2011-05-10
26. Living in Japan, working in eikaiwa, studying Japanese. Random fact: I play DnD with a group of guys in the Nagoya area.
What age are you? - wulfgar - 2011-05-10
I'm 23 years young
.It took me 1 year and 22 days to complete RTK.
I've been learning Japanese for 2 years and 5 months.
Right now I've stopped learning new things and just slowly reviewing
everything I have learned. Going back to having fun
. I know I'll never be as good as I want to be here in Canada. So, I've decided to put 日本語 on the
back burner and one day I'll hit the speaking proficiency I desire. That's about it.
Side note: I'm really glad that I gave so much money during our Christmas $
drive because even though I'm not studying as hard core as I did, I still love
these forums as they are the spark that will keep me from totally abandoning
日本語。
What age are you? - Tori-kun - 2011-05-10
Jarvik7 Wrote:Can't tell, but as far as I read he is a native, so.. where's the problem? I had to learn English grammar for approximately 6 years at school, 4 times a week for 45 minutes and I'm really glad the teacher only spoke English to us, although he knew we are understanding virtually nothing. As for grammar, I'd dare to say compared to Japanese the English grammar is somewhat easy. The sentence structure is almost like in German and the forms sound like, slightly, German one's as well. Just as a side note. English grammar is learnt quickly if you keep on going with some script. I have tons of them lieing around here, just about 60 pages covering the very basics of English grammar. (written in German and English respectively). I can't tell if my English grammar is perfect or free of mistakes, you have to judge, but I try to write like I think in English and not to translate word-by-word from German in my head before posting like I used to do.arch9443 Wrote:I see people question ta12121 a lot about his English, however it never really looks that strange to me.His English is fine enough for forum banter, but he has specified numerous times that he wants to be a translator. As a translator is essentially a professional writer, excellent grammar is a minimum. I don't follow the forum that closely anymore, but he seems better than before.
What age are you? - NoSleepTilFluent - 2011-05-10
"you have to judge" change to "you be the judge" and then you would sound natural to me. Also learnt I think is correct but I don't really know how to use that word in English so it sounds funny to me.
English especially in America has so many different forms that we are able to adapt and understand how people talk and it all sounds natural.
What age are you? - ta12121 - 2011-05-10
Tori-kun Wrote:I'm still researching careers and all, so not sure if I'll become a professional translator. But Japanese seems to be directing me to that career. I'm willing to work on my grammar,vocab and any other things that will help me get there. The way I like to think nowadays is: Keep learning, even if your really good. Keep learning even if you master and lastly, keep learning even if you reach your ultimate goals(slowly of course).Jarvik7 Wrote:Can't tell, but as far as I read he is a native, so.. where's the problem? I had to learn English grammar for approximately 6 years at school, 4 times a week for 45 minutes and I'm really glad the teacher only spoke English to us, although he knew we are understanding virtually nothing. As for grammar, I'd dare to say compared to Japanese the English grammar is somewhat easy. The sentence structure is almost like in German and the forms sound like, slightly, German one's as well. Just as a side note. English grammar is learnt quickly if you keep on going with some script. I have tons of them lieing around here, just about 60 pages covering the very basics of English grammar. (written in German and English respectively). I can't tell if my English grammar is perfect or free of mistakes, you have to judge, but I try to write like I think in English and not to translate word-by-word from German in my head before posting like I used to do.arch9443 Wrote:I see people question ta12121 a lot about his English, however it never really looks that strange to me.His English is fine enough for forum banter, but he has specified numerous times that he wants to be a translator. As a translator is essentially a professional writer, excellent grammar is a minimum. I don't follow the forum that closely anymore, but he seems better than before.
I'm just waiting on getting another job before I go into a hardcore phase of learning Japanese, like I did in the beginning phase. Right now I'm just maintaining,reading,using a srs(anki if my choice) and lastly just immersing.
What age are you? - Asriel - 2011-05-10
I agree. While not perfect, ta's gramar has seemed to have improved.
@Tori -- Your posts seem more grammatically correct than ta's do, so except for a few quirks (you have to judge != you be the judge) I wouldn't know you weren't native. I didn't, actually, for a long time.
ta's seems more "natural," so that when I read it, I read it as if he's speaking it and it makes perfect sense. If he were to become a professional writer, however, he would have to change his style to be more formal and proper, I'd imagine.
What age are you? - ta12121 - 2011-05-10
Asriel Wrote:I agree. While not perfect, ta's gramar has seemed to have improved.Whenever I think about the way one speaks is completely different from the way one writes(unless were talking to other friends,people we know,etc. But writing journals,articles,essays,etc. Is completely different).
@Tori -- Your posts seem more grammatically correct than ta's do, so except for a few quirks (you have to judge != you be the judge) I wouldn't know you weren't native. I didn't, actually, for a long time.
ta's seems more "natural," so that when I read it, I read it as if he's speaking it and it makes perfect sense. If he were to become a professional writer, however, he would have to change his style to be more formal and proper, I'd imagine.
So I should definitely work on both .And that I will do!
What age are you? - zachandhobbes - 2011-05-10
Just to clarify something --
ta, when you are typing on this forum, are you trying to use as best grammar as possible? Or are you just casually writing things and pushing the submit button?
I'm guilty of not really using proper grammar sometimes, but only when I just get lazy. I think that's the thing I can't tell about you; are you using the best grammar you can right now, or are you just writing something quickly?
For instance, "I'm still researching careers and all, so [I'm] not sure if I'll become a professional translator." One word makes all the difference in the 'native sounding-ness' of that sentence.
Also, I understand what you said, but grammatically this sentence was atrocious:
"Whenever I think about the way one speaks is completely different from the way one writes"
There's no easy way of fixing that, you'd have go go back and completely rewrite it like so:
"Whenever I think about the differences between speaking and writing, I'm [astonished, surprised, bewildered]"
You didn't put an adjective explaining what you feel 'whenever' you think about it and you need to distinguish the two different things you are thinking about more clearly.
Obviously I'm not here to be a grammar nazi or to criticize you or anything. I was just pointing out what I meant when I asked if you were native - some of the things you write seem as if a foreigner wrote it, or like you lost track of what you were writing mid way through your sentence. I think the latter is actually a pretty likely assumption.
What age are you? - jettyke - 2011-05-10
zachandhobbes Wrote:Also, I understand what you said, but grammatically this sentence was atrocious:Whenever I think about the way one speaks.
"Whenever I think about the way one speaks is completely different from the way one writes"
the way one speaks is completely different from the way one writes.
He made 2 sentences into 1, probably.
What age are you? - brianobush - 2011-05-10
Age: 38 (or something around there)
Finished RTK the first time in 2009 in four months.
Kept up for another six months, then tired of reviews even though I had only ~20 per day. Continued with sentences for a while. Then swore off SRS.
Now back at RTK but with Japanese keywords and loving it, at 400 in KO2001 order. Many of the kanji I already know quite well, but am learning new vocabulary along with way. I have an ipod dedicated to Anki use and have sworn that I will never quit SRSing now, since I have seen the effects without it.
What age are you? - NoSleepTilFluent - 2011-05-10
brianobush Wrote:Age: 38 (or something around there)NEEEEVVVVVVVEEEEERRRRRRR! Glad your back on the SRS train/bandwagon/way to awesomeness.
Finished RTK the first time in 2009 in four months.
Kept up for another six months, then tired of reviews even though I had only ~20 per day. Continued with sentences for a while. Then swore off SRS.
Now back at RTK but with Japanese keywords and loving it, at 400 in KO2001 order. Many of the kanji I already know quite well, but am learning new vocabulary along with way. I have an ipod dedicated to Anki use and have sworn that I will never quit SRSing now, since I have seen the effects without it.
What age are you? - Tzadeck - 2011-05-10
brianobush Wrote:Now back at RTK but with Japanese keywords and loving it, at 400 in KO2001 order. Many of the kanji I already know quite well, but am learning new vocabulary along with way. I have an ipod dedicated to Anki use and have sworn that I will never quit SRSing now, since I have seen the effects without it.Are you using a pre-made deck? If so, where can you download it?
What age are you? - mark95427 - 2011-05-10
zigmonty Wrote:I'm certain zachandhobbes would agree with me.mark95427 Wrote:Pffft. Says who? I say either capitalise all nouns like the germans or none.zachandhobbes Wrote:About peculiarities, I'm still not convinced that ta12121 is a native english speaker.LOL. Capitalize 'E' in English.
It doesn't matter though; it's just a little mistake.
What age are you? - brianobush - 2011-05-10
Tzadeck Wrote:It is a homegrown deck, wherein I combined wrightak's keywords, definition, KO2001 ordering and my old stories. I plan to make it available when I complete, since I am adding definitions and tweaking keywords to fit my world view. The ordering is not the best for beginners, since it makes no sense. However, I am quite comfortable with kanji and have found it handy to have highly frequent characters back under my belt.brianobush Wrote:Now back at RTK but with Japanese keywords and loving it, at 400 in KO2001 order. Many of the kanji I already know quite well, but am learning new vocabulary along with way. I have an ipod dedicated to Anki use and have sworn that I will never quit SRSing now, since I have seen the effects without it.Are you using a pre-made deck? If so, where can you download it?
What age are you? - Tzadeck - 2011-05-11
Thanks. I was just wondering.
Actually, I want to switch to Japanese keywords, but I don't want to switch from this site to Anki (since all my data is here). So I guess I'm stuck until Fabrice adds a way to modify keywords.
What age are you? - zachandhobbes - 2011-05-11
aren't custom keywords already in?
What age are you? - Tzadeck - 2011-05-11
zachandhobbes Wrote:aren't custom keywords already in?You're right! Fabrice was talking about it a few months back, but I didn't know that he added it.
I guess my problem's solved, lol.
Thanks Fabrice, and thanks for letting me know zachandhobbes, haha.
What age are you? - SendaiDan - 2011-05-11
zachandhobbes Wrote:Also, I understand what you said, but grammatically this sentence was atrocious: "Whenever I think about the way one speaks is completely different from the way one writes"You can just add 'it' before 'is' and it makes perfect sense...I wouldn't say it is atrocious.
Btw, I'm 21. I never really got into RtK, only used it for a little bit before I gave it up at the start of last year and just learnt the traditional way. I was in Japan as an exchange student at the time, so I didn't really have time to go through and learn how to write the kanji and then go back through it all again learning the readings. Daily exposure was plenty to remember 99% of the readings.
What age are you? - nadiatims - 2011-05-11
y'all be grammar nazis.
No one has perfect grammar, there isn't even agreement as to what constitutes perfect grammar. Even the finest authors of today are butchering English if you judge it against Shakespearean English. Give it a few years and 'your' will be listed in the dictionary as a valid contraction of 'you are' if it isn't already. If we all agreed to start placing our objects in front of our verbs it would grate on our ears for about a week and then we'd all be used to it. Grammar rules and vocabulary reflect their use not the other way round. I find it quite regrettable that some people judge others on the 'quality' of their grammar rather than the content of what they're saying. Ta's messages are always perfectly clear to me, he just occasionally forgets to type the odd word here and there. I do too. When I'm writing something more important than a forum post I double check with more scrutiny.
brianobush Wrote:I have an ipod dedicated to Anki use and have sworn that I will never quit SRSing now, since I have seen the effects without it.If SRSing takes up more than 10% of your study time (including language usage as study time) then I really think you're better off quitting the SRSing and just getting more comprehensible exposure using your L1 as a crutch if necessary (ie making use of transcripts, dictionaries etc). I really don't get it when I see people who who have been signed up to this site for over two years and are still overly concerned with SRSing especially for RTK.
What age are you? - onafarm - 2011-05-11
zigmonty Wrote:So you're not a native speaker either? Or do you just deny the existence of grammar rules in English?Quote:LOL. Capitalize 'E' in English.Pffft. Says who? I say either capitalise all nouns like the germans or none.
What age are you? - Asriel - 2011-05-11
nadiatims Wrote:Ta's messages are always perfectly clear to me, he just occasionally forgets to type the odd word here and there. I do too. When I'm writing something more important than a forum post I double check with more scrutiny.I don't know about anybody else, but this is pretty much exactly what I wanted to say.
What age are you? - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-11
nadiatims Wrote:y'all be grammar nazis.Thats great and everything, but it's not the way the world works in practice.
No one has perfect grammar, there isn't even agreement as to what constitutes perfect grammar. Even the finest authors of today are butchering English if you judge it against Shakespearean English. Give it a few years and 'your' will be listed in the dictionary as a valid contraction of 'you are' if it isn't already. If we all agreed to start placing our objects in front of our verbs it would grate on our ears for about a week and then we'd all be used to it. Grammar rules and vocabulary reflect their use not the other way round. I find it quite regrettable that some people judge others on the 'quality' of their grammar rather than the content of what they're saying. Ta's messages are always perfectly clear to me, he just occasionally forgets to type the odd word here and there. I do too. When I'm writing something more important than a forum post I double check with more scrutiny.
If I wrote stuff like "Press on y'alls breaks and you're car will stop" in some PR stuff for Toyota at work I'd get fired pretty quickly, even if it is understandable. What I and other translators write forms the voice of a company so it has to be professional, not merely intelligible.
Reading poor English by a native does become grating, but I wouldn't comment about it unless said person has expressed interest in becoming a professional translator as TA has. If you are a good writer you shouldn't need to be putting in any extra effort to make your sentences grammatically/syntactically correct. Effort when writing should be towards style and content. Thus, "it's just a forum" doesn't form much of an excuse. If anything one should look at forum posting as an opportunity to practice.
What age are you? - EratiK - 2011-05-11
I'd recommend ta12121 to take a literature course of some sort (at a uni preferably). Not a writing workshop (in my personnal experience workshops suck). It's when I started to write literature essays over and over that I really developed my writing skills; you know, planification, text setting... (Hayes & Flower 80)
What age are you? - brianobush - 2011-05-11
nadiatims Wrote:If SRSing takes up more than 10% of your study time (including language usage as study time) then I really think you're better off quitting the SRSing and just getting more comprehensible exposure using your L1 as a crutch if necessary (ie making use of transcripts, dictionaries etc). I really don't get it when I see people who who have been signed up to this site for over two years and are still overly concerned with SRSing especially for RTK.I think SRSing is invaluable to learning the readings, vocab and keeping your kanji. After you have the foundation, I agree you should move on, but in the beginning when you are acquiring all this information, you need some methodology that keeps you from forgetting. My two cents.
What age are you? - ta12121 - 2011-05-12
Jarvik7 Wrote:I'll try being more careful on how I write. In the past I took several English courses and my teachers pointed out to my grammar.They recommended I work on it and make it flawless. But I haven't heard much anything outside of grammar(definitely need to work on flow as well). In terms of essay writing, during my first year I wrote a lot of essays. Worst part, it was all done by hand. The grammar was the problem, not the way I write. Naturally, a lot of people have bad grammar(or at least not very good in some respects, including me). I'll be sure to take steps to improve this(especially if I want to become a translator).nadiatims Wrote:y'all be grammar nazis.Thats great and everything, but it's not the way the world works in practice.
No one has perfect grammar, there isn't even agreement as to what constitutes perfect grammar. Even the finest authors of today are butchering English if you judge it against Shakespearean English. Give it a few years and 'your' will be listed in the dictionary as a valid contraction of 'you are' if it isn't already. If we all agreed to start placing our objects in front of our verbs it would grate on our ears for about a week and then we'd all be used to it. Grammar rules and vocabulary reflect their use not the other way round. I find it quite regrettable that some people judge others on the 'quality' of their grammar rather than the content of what they're saying. Ta's messages are always perfectly clear to me, he just occasionally forgets to type the odd word here and there. I do too. When I'm writing something more important than a forum post I double check with more scrutiny.
If I wrote stuff like "Press on y'alls breaks and you're car will stop" in some PR stuff for Toyota at work I'd get fired pretty quickly, even if it is understandable. What I and other translators write forms the voice of a company so it has to be professional, not merely intelligible.
Reading poor English by a native does become grating, but I wouldn't comment about it unless said person has expressed interest in becoming a professional translator as TA has. If you are a good writer you shouldn't need to be putting in any extra effort to make your sentences grammatically/syntactically correct. Effort when writing should be towards style and content. Thus, "it's just a forum" doesn't form much of an excuse. If anything one should look at forum posting as an opportunity to practice.