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+--- Thread: How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? (/thread-11901.html)
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - kameden - 2014-06-14
The obvious answer is to look it up in a dictionary, which works for 95% of words, but there's still 5% that list multiple pronunciations. Things like 瞬く, 初産, 墓穴, etc. You can use sites like forvo, but they are often unreliable. How do you deal with things like this? What if you want to add the word to Anki or something, what do you add? I come across this problem constantly, and for some reason I don't think I've ever seen another person mention it before.
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - vix86 - 2014-06-14
I'd usually check a J-J such as Weblio and see what the top entry is. If the entries have different definitions though then that might suggest its a context thing. This issue has always seemed to me to be a matter of exposure/pragmatics to know what is the right one. Its a tough one.
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - Vempele - 2014-06-14
If the dictionary has a really similar example sentence (often a set phrase) for one word but not the other, I assume it's that word.
If both have the intended meaning but one of them also has other meanings, I assume it's the more specific word.
If I've seen the author spell one of the words in kana, the use of kanji might indicate that it's the other word. (or the lack of furigana might indicate that he just randomly decided to kanjify the word this time. It's hard to know)
If the dictionary redirects one word to the other, it often just means that the former is a common misreading of the latter, e.g. 忌諱 - you'd expect it to be きい because 緯, 偉 and 違 are read ｲ, but it's actually きき (J-J dictionaries call these 慣用読み)
If both words mean the same and it's on-on vs. kun-kun, I assume it's the former if it's part of a compound word, the latter otherwise (in practice, usually the latter since if it's in a compound word, the compound itself tends to be in the dictionary). Particularly if the dictionary lists compound words in place of example sentences for the former.
I try to only add unambiguous words to Anki. I added 経緯 as いきさつ because I knew I'd never have trouble remembering けいい (I've since seen いきさつ in kana and 経緯 pronounced けいい when it meant いきさつ... oh well, at least I remember what the word means).
柵 is さく when it's a fence and しがらみ when it's a metaphor, so I added 柵 alone as さく and 恋の柵 as しがらみ (I've seen both usages, but I think the latter tends to have furigana).
瞬く間に is またたくまに, so if I couldn't remember all the readings of 瞬く, that's what I'd add first. It's also the only one that can mean anything other than eyes blinking. I think I've seen both しばた(た)く and まばたく in furigana, but never またたく.
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - Flamerokz - 2014-06-14
I like to write letters of inquiry to the Japanese government.
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - yudantaiteki - 2014-06-14
Primarily you need exposure to the language, so that you know which words are common and which are rare, and so you can learn the idiomatic phrases. If you have access to a smaller dictionary like a beginners J-E or the like, that can sometimes help you know whether a word is obsolete/rare or not.
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - kameden - 2014-06-14
vix86 Wrote:This issue has always seemed to me to be a matter of exposure/pragmatics to know what is the right one.
yudantaiteki Wrote:Primarily you need exposure to the language, so that you know which words are common and which are rare, and so you can learn the idiomatic phrases.Not sure how exposure will really help though. If you see "墓穴" 50 times in context, you're still not going to know how to pronounce it.
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - Vempele - 2014-06-14
kameden Wrote:Not sure how exposure will really help though. If you see "墓穴" 50 times in context, you're still not going to know how to pronounce it.One day you'll come across the idiom 墓穴を掘る and the dictionaries will state that it's unconditionally ぼけつ in that usage. The rest of the time... maybe it doesn't matter?
How do you know how to pronounce a word without furigana? - yudantaiteki - 2014-06-14
kameden Wrote:Exposure to the language, not the writing system -- in cases like this the writing system serves as a barrier blocking us from the language. Of course in this situation it may not help because 墓穴 isn't a word you'll be encountering in speech very often, although watching drama or anime you may hear it.vix86 Wrote:This issue has always seemed to me to be a matter of exposure/pragmatics to know what is the right one.yudantaiteki Wrote:Primarily you need exposure to the language, so that you know which words are common and which are rare, and so you can learn the idiomatic phrases.Not sure how exposure will really help though. If you see "墓穴" 50 times in context, you're still not going to know how to pronounce it.
Vempele, I searched 墓穴の読み and got this:
墓穴は確かに「はかあな」とも読みますが、慣用句で「墓穴を掘る」と表現するときには「ぼけつ」としか読みません。時々使われるとお書きですが、それは誤用の例でしょう。
That matches with my impression; I think I've encountered はかあな before but not ぼけつ. The reason this native speaker can say 確かに「はかあな」とも読みます is because as a native speaker he/she knows that ぼけつ is not used outside that idiom. This is much harder for us to know as non-native speakers but it's really the only choice other than asking a native speaker.