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Handwriting and vocab question - Raedrob - 2014-06-03
Hey, everybody!
I'm super new to learning japanese, passing just 900 kanji in RtK1 the other day,
but pretty severe lack of vocab and grammar so far. When I was reviewing and adding
new kanji the other day, I started thinking about my hand writing. To what extent do you
care for your hand writing when studying? As for myself I seem to forget squeezing primitives together in the bigger kanji, extending certain strokes in certain kanji (walking legs in "foothold" comes to mind) and stuff like that. I reckon being able to recognize the characters is most important, but do you have any opinions about this?
Also, I want to start learning more vocab and grammar so I'm not blank when I finish RtK1. My daily routine at this point is already taking it's toll, as I spend up to two hours getting through new kanji and reviews every day. I don't have too much more time to set aside for japanese studies on a daily basis, unfortunately. Do you know of any decent resources/approaches for learning vocab if you're a beginner? I have bought a basic graded reader, so I have at least that one going for me
Hopefully I'm posting this in the appropriate place, don't want to mess up!
Handwriting and vocab question - EratiK - 2014-06-03
Raedrob Wrote:Hey, everybody!Hey. Well everybody has different circumstances -- like people who need to write pretty early -- but if you don't have too, I'd say the most important thing in doing RTK is build your hand muscles and your muscle memory. I only started worrying about looks long after I finished RTK. Then my handwritting really got better when I started to use squared paper (only used blank sheets before).
I'm super new to learning japanese, passing just 900 kanji in RtK1 the other day,
but pretty severe lack of vocab and grammar so far. When I was reviewing and adding
new kanji the other day, I started thinking about my hand writing. To what extent do you
care for your hand writing when studying? As for myself I seem to forget squeezing primitives together in the bigger kanji, extending certain strokes in certain kanji (walking legs in "foothold" comes to mind) and stuff like that. I reckon being able to recognize the characters is most important, but do you have any opinions about this?
Handwriting and vocab question - poblequadrat - 2014-06-03
I don't know about handwriting. There are only a handful of strokes and there is a proper way of writing them, plus some rules on the proportions of characters. However it seems native handwriting usually looks less like proper penji and more like a messy version of the stroke order diagrams from Denki Jisho.
The hardest part of kanji besides stroke weight (which is more or less irrelevant if you aren't using a brush) is proportion but if you write slowly it's doable, and katakana are the same. Hiragana however are very hard because they're not composed of standard strokes, and the smallest detail (the tail at the end of れ, how much to the left the third stroke of さ is, etc) makes the character look wrong to a native.
Handwriting and vocab question - Aikynaro - 2014-06-03
It's not like you'll probably ever need to handwrite anything anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about neatness unless you want to make a hobby out of it.
If you're already writing out kanji for RTK, maybe you could try writing out a full word (preferably the second kanji being something you've already learnt).
But if you've decided to go the RTK route, it might be best just to get it out of the way as quickly as possible and then move on. It takes up enough time that trying to juggle multiple things might be too much.
Handwriting and vocab question - bflatnine - 2014-06-03
I'm always surprised at how many people write off (pardon the pun) handwriting and say it isn't something you'll ever need to do anyway. I write by hand in English all the time. I write by hand in Chinese all the time. I take notes in Chinese by hand in class. I give presentations in Chinese and have to write on the whiteboard. When I read a book in Chinese, my margin notes are also in Chinese. When I do interpretation (admittedly, this won't be applicable to many), I take notes in a mixture of Chinese and English, with various other symbols thrown in.
My point is, I write by hand on a daily basis in both of my languages, and I'm sure that a year or so from now, once I've been in Tokyo for a while and my Japanese is up to par, I'll write in Japanese frequently, too.
The way to learn to write well is to look at examples of writing by native speakers and imitate the way they write. It's the same way you learn to speak well: imitate how native speakers talk. Get a tutor to correct your handwriting. Get a book on how to write by hand (there's one for Chinese called Learn to Write Chinese Characters by Johan Björksten that would also do nicely for Japanese kanji). Practice, practice, practice.
Incidentally, if you think you may ever need to learn how to read Japanese handwriting/cursive, you should learn to write. Knowing how to write will help tremendously with learning to read cursive.
Handwriting and vocab question - mc962 - 2014-06-03
I'd agree that handwriting is important, but it's up to you if you really want to try and make it neat. I always wrote out my kanji reviews because it helped me remember and got my hand used to the character. However, I also didnt pay as much attention to my handwriting, and since my handwriting is messy in English anyway I care a bit less. At most, if you focus on handwriting at this point I would try and get the proportions right and not forget the little hooks and stuff on some of them. But I didn't put much effort into developing good handwriting, just ways I can write fast and legible(-ish)
As far as vocab. (aside from watching J-shows), I learned a lot of my initial vocab. as well as grammar from a textbook. I'd definitely recommend the Genki series as a good way to ease you into the language. Generally the vocab. lists in each chapter only take about an hour at most (and often less) to memorize completely, and then you can add it to Anki or something later to keep testing them. It also introduces you to new grammar each lesson. You can even learn kanji (including readings) from it if you want
*I don't know how far you are in your studies aside from RTK, but if you don't know hiragana/katakana I don't know that that graded reader will help very much. If you don't know them then personally I would put the new kanji reviews on hold until you know the kana sets.
Handwriting and vocab question - howtwosavealif3 - 2014-06-03
My handwriting is messy and bad in english and it is in japanese too lol. I have no desire or intention ot improve it. I learned all the stroke orders because I think that's impotrant but I'm not spending time to make it acceptable with those boxes and all that. the whole advantage of learning japaense by yourself as opposed to growing up there and going to school there is that i get to decide what I want to improve on and what i think is a waste of time (ie writing kanji over and over again to learn it or writing a kanji or hiragana thing over and over again to improve my handwriting ). i think with japanese there's a higher chance of people discerning my writing than with english since kanji is more unique looking compared to the letters of the alphabet. usually when i write in japanese it's for myself because i don't live in Japan etc.
oh this thread reminded me to chck for 筆跡鑑定 application and thre is one for the iphoen. i've seen thes eon tv shows and i'm sure there are websites too.
Like people said native people have horrible handwrwiting too lol.
Handwriting and vocab question - Raedrob - 2014-06-05
Thanks for the input, guys.
It's interesting to read your thoughts on the topic.
The first thing I learned when I started was hiragana and katakana, so no worries there.
I'm able to read my graded readers, it's just understanding them that's the issue
I'll get back to work and not stress the handwriting too much. I'm able to read it myself,
so that's as good as it needs to be atm.
Handwriting and vocab question - Bokusenou - 2014-06-05
Hmm, now that people mention it, I don't really write much by hand in English, besides shopping lists, and once in a while paper forms, but I work on a computer all day, so I rarely need to write anything on paper for that....I can see how some other professions might need to hand write things more.
When learning kanji, I wrote them out for two reasons: 1. It helped me remember them better. 2. I wanted the Japanese handwriting IME on Android to recognise my kanji. As long as I keep my kanji legible enough for the IME pad, making it look good doesn't matter to me. Those wanting to move to Japan or something might want to practice a little more though.