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Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - milanb - 2014-05-15
Hello everyone. I just graduated from a famous university in the US with a degree in Computer Science and I'm going to Japan at the end of June. I'm going as an American tourist for 3 months without a visa and trying to find a job there. The jobs I'm particularly interested in are programming jobs at a video game company, but it doesn't have to be. The main reasons I'm going are to acquire some degree of fluency in Japanese and experience living in another country.
So, my questions:
- I heard that the Japanese fiscal year starts in April and that that's when most interviews are held. Is it very difficult to find a job in the summer afterward?
- Do I have to pass the N1 in order to be considered for interviews? My Japanese is pretty good. I've worked through at least 2/3 of the core 6k anki deck, took 2 years of classes, and practiced speaking with native speakers via meetup.com. I practice these days by doing anki reps, reading NHK articles (with rikaichan), watching the occasional anime, and talking with Japanese friends. I think I could probably pass the N2 based on what I saw from a friends N2 prep book, but probably not N1 yet. (though I think I could pass N1 after about 6 more months)
- Are there a lot of freelance jobs available? (like web development etc)
- I also heard that one cannot apply for a work visa within Japan as an American tourist without a visa. How does this process work and do I have to go back to the US to apply or could I go to Korea and do it there? Is there a website that has all this information?
If you have experience working as a programmer in Japan, any advice or useful websites would be greatly appreciated.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vix86 - 2014-05-15
Daijob.com : For more general positions, Entry level stuff is slim. Most places want people that have business level(N2) Japanese. Pay probably won't match up with the kind of stuff your friends will be making at their first job in the US (60-70k/yr), expect 40-55k. Might find mobile programming spots here though, for games.
Raku-Job : Anime/Manga/Game industry job aggregation site. Most of the positions are expecting Japanese people. Pay may be in the 30-40k range.
Freelance stuff won't be easy to find inside Japan due to visa requirements.
You can change visa status while in Japan, no need to hop to korea and back anymore. I recommend creating an account on Daijob and putting your resume up and firing it off to recruiting/staffing agencies listed on there a month before you leave, let them know you will be "in Japan for 3 months from X date."
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - dizmox - 2014-05-23
Most people in Japan start the job hunting process in the winter, roughly 15-16 months before graduation. Getting an offer between a half a year and a year prior to graduation is typical. It is indeed difficult as a native Japanese person to find a well-paying, full-time job later if you did not find one in this period as there is a stigma regarding having failed to secure one before graduation.
In your case you're not Japanese so you might have a little more leeway, but it really depends on your programming and Japanese skill. If you're a really good programmer you can just apply anywhere that needs your skills, even if your Japanese isn't that great. If you don't have a lot of programming skills then the best thing to do is to probably leverage your academic background, try to get a scholarship to go to graduate school or something, improve your Japanese and technical skills in the mean time then job hunt while in the country. Either that or just stay in your home country to build up your skills.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - Inny Jan - 2014-05-23
dizmox Wrote:If you're a really good programmer...http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/41473/how-can-i-know-whether-i-am-a-good-programmer
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - NightSky - 2014-05-23
This is exactly what I did, except I was teaching English at first to get a valid visa. Found a developer job inside of 2 months.
The market might be quite different now, but if you are actually any good at software development I think you have a decent shout at finding something. Get onto daijob and then go try and meet as many recruiters as you can to get an idea of what the job market is like.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - dizmox - 2014-05-24
Inny Jan Wrote:Let me correct myself: "if you can convince the people hiring that you're a good programmer".dizmox Wrote:If you're a really good programmer...http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/41473/how-can-i-know-whether-i-am-a-good-programmer
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - Womacks23 - 2014-05-25
If you are in Tokyo this week...
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/rakuten-recruiting-party-for-engineers-tickets-11580261875?aff=estw
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - lardycake - 2014-05-25
I got to the final interview stage at Rakuten a while back.
I didn't get the job but just to let you know, in case you don't know...
If you join a company like Rakuten as a graduate, you will be joining on 1st April along with thousands of others. All the big companies do this on the exact same day every year.
They employ you on the basis that you know nothing, so what you said about being from one of the best universities doesn't mean jack shit I'm afraid. If you are a data mining genius for example, that will certainly help you get past the interviews, but on day 1 you could end up with a job completely unrelated to your skills and you just have to roll with it.
As for Rakuten as a company, I know several Japanese who work there, and while it is not necessarily black company status, it has a lot of problems. For example it is high stress, and you can expect to work until midnight and beyond on unpaid overtime frequently. Some staff will sleep in the toilets or play on their phone in there to hide from their boss. If you make a mistake of some sort you may be bullied, or have to appear in front of 10,000 people in their asakai sessions which occur every tuesday morning (have to be in early on that day).
If you can handle all of that, it does have the possibility for rapid progression of your career and you will get plenty of networking opportunities should you wish to hop on to greener pastures down the line (Google, Cyberagent, etc).
However, as is standard in a Japanese company. If you are joining as a graduate you will be in a group, kind of like your year. There are basically rounds in which people from your year can be promoted, if you are promoted in the first round your career can grow quickly, if you miss that first round it becomes increasingly difficult over time as you are then competing against the next years students, and then the next year, etc. Eventually it can become too much and your chance of promotion is reduced to almost nil.
If after reading all of that, you want to get a job working there, mY advice is this: Get brushed up on Java (it's the main language they are looking for), get some kind of data mining experience preferably using R, maybe Hadoop experience (it's big in Rakuten for recommendations on Ichiba etc). If you are able to talk about these things in your interview you will sail right on through the interview process very easily.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - Womacks23 - 2014-05-25
A lot of what you wrote about Rakuten is not accurate or very outdated. For example, they haven't done the public shaming thing at morning meeting for over a year now (stopped because of outcry from the foreign staff - which is now approaching 15% of the company) and new grads can enter in April and October.
Also, we don't hire a thousand people every year
And we most certainly do pay our overtime.
Anyway, if anyone wants to know about the realities of working at Rakuten, send me a PM anytime.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vix86 - 2014-05-26
I looked at Rakuten leading up to leaving Japan. I made the decision that it would be better to try for a semi-experienced position like a junior/mid dev. The problem is that the fresh grad spots at Rakuten have ridiculously low salary for IT/dev spots, 30万/month. There are some direct hire teaching spots with equivalent pay. They say in the fresh grad ad (http://global.rakuten.com/corp/careers/engineering/job_description/) that the amount can be negotiated up, but that's a crazy low figure to start negotiating from when you figure that most dev spots in the US are starting from 50-60k/year (~41万-50万/month).
Just something I thought I'd put out there.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vileru - 2014-05-26
vix86 Wrote:The problem is that the fresh grad spots at Rakuten have ridiculously low salary for IT/dev spots, 30万/month. There are some direct hire teaching spots with equivalent pay. They say in the fresh grad ad (http://global.rakuten.com/corp/careers/engineering/job_description/) that the amount can be negotiated up, but that's a crazy low figure to start negotiating from when you figure that most dev spots in the US are starting from 50-60k/year (~41万-50万/month).It's important to not forget the high level of job security in Japan. My brother graduated from a top 20 CS program in the US, and he already had a job arranged at a startup right after graduation last May. He started at 70k. But the company had a bad year and let off all their junior developers in the autumn. He finally found a new position two weeks ago after ~8 months. However, I should mention that he limited his job search to the Boston area and absolutely refused any jobs below his former position (IT jobs don't look good on your resume, in addition to sucking in general).
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - kitakitsune - 2014-05-26
300,000 starting salary is on the high end in Japan. I can list some major companies paying much less.
Bonus is probably biannual at 1-2x months salary.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - lardycake - 2014-05-26
Womacks23 Wrote:A lot of what you wrote about Rakuten is not accurate or very outdated. For example, they haven't done the public shaming thing at morning meeting for over a year now (stopped because of outcry from the foreign staff - which is now approaching 15% of the company) and new grads can enter in April and October.Upon reading your post I checked back and interestingly the content of the site changed very recently to reflect what you say.
Also, we don't hire a thousand people every year
And we most certainly do pay our overtime.
Anyway, if anyone wants to know about the realities of working at Rakuten, send me a PM anytime.
As recent as last month it said that the first 40 hours overtime each month are unpaid, but that seems to have been removed from the site now.
In regard to salary, Rakuten does have one of the best starting salaries for new grads in Japan even if it does seem to suck compared to US.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - kitakitsune - 2014-05-26
In most Japanese companies, the first 40 hours of overtime is included in your base pay.
I have a similar contract but never put in more than 15-20 hours of overtime per month. So I'm technically getting extra pay for not working.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vix86 - 2014-05-26
vileru Wrote:It's important to not forget the high level of job security in Japan. My brother graduated from a top 20 CS program in the US, and he already had a job arranged at a startup right after graduation last May. He started at 70k. But the company had a bad year and let off all their junior developers in the autumn. He finally found a new position two weeks ago after ~8 months. However, I should mention that he limited his job search to the Boston area and absolutely refused any jobs below his former position (IT jobs don't look good on your resume, in addition to sucking in general).You can't compare a startup to Rakuten, or a startup to Microsoft. The stability of the two companies are completely different. Not only that but most companies startup or corp will be paying at least 50-60k/year starting out, you can go higher if you are getting in at those startups, but from what I've heard you can expect to work longer hours at startups.
kitakitsune Wrote:300,000 starting salary is on the high end in Japan. I can list some major companies paying much less.I know that its the common starting point for many places, but if you already have experience in the actual field (ie: You have a CS degree) and are proactive in what you do (create your own software). Then I would expect higher pay starting out. Its not like they have to teach you how to turn a computer on, write code, and get it to compile.
Bonus is probably biannual at 1-2x months salary.
The thing I've constantly heard is that behind your experience, your salary is your most important thing you have for negotiating as you move through your career. I suppose if your dream is to work at one company your entire life then I guess its not a worry, but with the glass ceilings that exist for foreigners in Japan, I can't see that being a realistic dream. So I can't see why anyone would cap themselves in the knees on something like this (salary).
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - kitakitsune - 2014-05-26
Perfectly reasonable, but Japan doesn't have the same labor markets as the US.
If you want to work in Japan in the IT field, you should expect less pay. We can call it the otaku tax.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vix86 - 2014-05-26
Ya, its pretty obvious when you look at Daijob and see Senior level positions barely beating out junior/mid level positions back in the US. I guess that might be why its more worth it to try and get those positions at foreign companies in Japan.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - kitakitsune - 2014-05-26
Bonus and stock option packages that are not typically listed in job postings would bring the Japanese companies more in line with US practices.
A mid-level manager in Japan making a base salary of 550,000 yen or so would probably recieve an additional benefits package worth 1.5-2.0 million every year.
And foreign companies in Japan wouldn't necessarily pay more either.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vileru - 2014-05-26
vix86 Wrote:You can't compare a startup to Rakuten, or a startup to Microsoft.You're right. I mentioned my brother because he's the only actual case I know of personally. Of course, I realize they can't be compared.
Even if my comparison is bad, though, my observation still holds. I'm sure Microsoft and other large American companies restructure much more often than their Japanese counterparts. Once you're in a Japanese company, it's virtually impossible to be fired or laid off unless you screw up big time or the company is deep in the red. In the US, everyone knows that pink slip day is coming whenever holiday bonuses are near.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - vix86 - 2014-05-27
kitakitsune Wrote:Bonus and stock option packages that are not typically listed in job postings would bring the Japanese companies more in line with US practices.I could be wrong, but most foreign/overseas companies usually have stock options as well if thats something your interested in. So I wouldn't exactly say that "spices" the deal up much. As for bonuses, I've heard they are double edged swords. They can bump your prospective yearly salary but they're a non-constant variable in the scheme of things. The economy, peer review opinions, etc. can affect the whole thing. Also, since they are considered a "side benefit" you can't include them as part of your salary for your current position, which goes back the thing I said earlier about the 2 most important things you have in your career. But I realize bonuses are a Japanese business culture thing.
A mid-level manager in Japan making a base salary of 550,000 yen or so would probably recieve an additional benefits package worth 1.5-2.0 million every year.
And foreign companies in Japan wouldn't necessarily pay more either.
I completely agree on the foreign company pay thing. I wouldn't doubt for minute that many foreign companies would pay less. Though it has me curious as to whether or not a person with both experience outside Japan might not be able to push that higher. Guess it'd be a ESID I think.
vileru Wrote:Even if my comparison is bad, though, my observation still holds. I'm sure Microsoft and other large American companies restructure much more often than their Japanese counterparts. Once you're in a Japanese company, it's virtually impossible to be fired or laid off unless you screw up big time or the company is deep in the red. In the US, everyone knows that pink slip day is coming whenever holiday bonuses are near.Its true that American companies restructure but unless you are super unlucky enough to constantly end up in positions where you are only around for a year; getting in 3-5 years isn't bad. And while Japanese companies can't fire as easily as American companies, they can stone wall you from further promotions if they really want to get rid of you, along with making your life hell. Kind of like what lardycake was mentioning about the promotion thing. I guess its one of those things you have to decide; would you rather have job security and the potential to never really move up, or have some risk of losing a job but the prospect of continually improving salary and career status.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - Danchan - 2014-05-27
Interesting to hear about Rakuten changing due to pressure from foreign staff. When you say foreign staff though, what do you mean by this? Do you mean non-Chinese, non-Korean "foreign"? I have difficulty imagine Chinese staff speaking up about the poor working conditions when their status in the eyes of the company is often so low (skilled or not).
As for the professional incomes only starting to reach a decent rate of pay by the time they hit 30 or so; if you are assuming that your new hires are all fresh graduates, and while at university they mostly bucked around and you will need to train them up from scratch, then I can almost understand a beginning pay of 300,000 + bonus. But how can this system fit with hiring more people from other countries who are used to a different system? Or for that matter the increasing 転職率 domestically. Something has gotta give surely.
Then again, maybe this is how the system is supposed to work. You get your foreign specialists over for a few years, extract some value from their labor, then let them quit out of frustration/exhaustion and go home so they don't clutter up the place.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - dizmox - 2014-05-30
kitakitsune Wrote:Bonus and stock option packages that are not typically listed in job postings would bring the Japanese companies more in line with US practices.International financial companies pay their staff pretty fairly compared to overseas remuneration packages given the local price of living. There's plenty of coding opportunities there (and not just back office).
A mid-level manager in Japan making a base salary of 550,000 yen or so would probably recieve an additional benefits package worth 1.5-2.0 million every year.
And foreign companies in Japan wouldn't necessarily pay more either.
You just need to aim for companies that have a definitively international culture. Look into start ups and small companies too since big companies are generally too bound by rules to change their pay structures for outlier candidates.
BTW, sorry to hijack but if anyone wants to talk about programming (or working in Japan or otaku hobbies or whatever) send me a message.
I'm always doing this kind of stuff by myself (trying to really improve my C++ level right now) so it'd be nice to have someone at a similar level or a mentor figure...
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - john555 - 2014-05-30
Just a dumb question: What are the reasons again for why a person born/raised in North America or Europe would want to work in Japan? As I understand it, under their laws you can never become a Japanese citizen (or is that incorrect?). I would feel unwelcome. And also annoyed, that my own country welcomes the Japanese as immigrants but I would not be welcome to immigrate to their country.
Is it because you'll get specialized experience that you can't get in North America or Europe, so that when you come back home you can get a better job than otherwise possible?
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - dizmox - 2014-05-30
Quote:What are the reasons again for why a person born/raised in North America or Europe would want to work in Japan?I never really liked living in the west much and my reasons for liking living here include
1) girlfriend
2) general culture that suits my personality better
3) otaku culture
4) generally clean, low levels of crime
5) easier to make a name for myself career-wise since there are less people with a comparable skillset to compete with
I wouldn't mind trying living in America for a bit but I can't imagine wanting to live anywhere else permanently.
Quote:As I understand it, under their laws you can never become a Japanese citizen (or is that incorrect?).You can become one after 5-10 continuous years of working in the country but since they don't allow dual citizenship right now it's probably more advantageous to just settle for permanent residency.
I don't feel like becoming a citizen wouldn't really make me feel any more "welcome" at all. It isn't necessary to tie your identity to your country of legal affiliation. I don't really have any national identity.
Programming Jobs in Japan and general travel questions - john555 - 2014-05-30
dizmox Wrote:You can become one after 5-10 continuous years of working in the country but since they don't allow dual citizenship right now it's probably more advantageous to just settle for permanent residency.Thanks for clarifying.
I don't feel like becoming a citizen wouldn't really make me feel any more "welcome" at all. It isn't necessary to tie your identity to your country of legal affiliation. I don't really have any national identity.
I'm just curious...in the time you've spent in Japan have you ever come across a Caucasian born in North America or Europe who is now a Japanese citizen?