Core 10k - optimized i+1 version

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Printable Version

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Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - killua - 2013-08-25

pmnox Wrote:I have prepared the deck, but I'm planning to make some improvements.
So far I added pictures, and the sorted index based on list of all 3824 words, and the field that the sentence without the given word.

Here is the beta version of core10k - core6k deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/163007112
Here is the beta version of core6k - core2k deck:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/274832392
Let me know if you have any suggestions.

I need to find the frequency list so that I can divide those words into groups of 1k,2k cards and then sort them as well. I'll do that later.

Cangy said that he will send me tools that he used before. I'm going to make some changes to those decks once I get them.

Great work pmnox, thank you for sharing!
I'm really interested in the 6k-10k deck.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-25

killua Wrote:
pmnox Wrote:I have prepared the deck, but I'm planning to make some improvements.
So far I added pictures, and the sorted index based on list of all 3824 words, and the field that the sentence without the given word.

Here is the beta version of core10k - core6k deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/163007112
Here is the beta version of core6k - core2k deck:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/274832392
Let me know if you have any suggestions.

I need to find the frequency list so that I can divide those words into groups of 1k,2k cards and then sort them as well. I'll do that later.

Cangy said that he will send me tools that he used before. I'm going to make some changes to those decks once I get them.
Great work pmnox, thank you for sharing!
I'm really interested in the 6k-10k deck.

Thanks, let me know what you think about it. I would like to know what is your opinion about the order of words that I use.

I'm about to release the combined 2k/6k/10k optimized i + 1 with pictures/sound deck. I'm currently waiting for the processing to finish.

EDIT:
It's ready:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/993814702

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Nukemarine - 2013-08-25

ryuudou Wrote:How can vocab be grouped by similar kanji if the vocab are ordered by kanji frequency? If the vocab are being ordered by kanji frequency then similar kanji will not be in groups, and the words will not come in order of frequency.

Unless you don't mean ordered but grouped as in going through a group of frequent words not by order of frequency.

Yes, it's the most frequent 2000 words sorted by kanji, then the most frequent 2001-4000 words sorted by kanji, etc. In reality, if you have a list of top 50,000 words with a frequency index, you can create another index that sorts the entire list by the KO2k1 Kanji list. From there, you can group the frequency words by 1000 or 500 or 100 or whatever then sort those subgroups by kanji. Only thing I like to do on top of that is spread out the kana only words.

Frequency to get words that are used, well, frequently. Sort by kanji to help learn those frequent words faster while keeping close to an i+1 method of learning.

Last thing I like to remind people is that every 15 new words should take about an hour to learn plus future reviews. Your time may vary but this should help decide if you want to invest another 60 more hours to systematically learn 1000 more words that might cover only 1% of the language.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-25

Nukemarine Wrote:
ryuudou Wrote:How can vocab be grouped by similar kanji if the vocab are ordered by kanji frequency? If the vocab are being ordered by kanji frequency then similar kanji will not be in groups, and the words will not come in order of frequency.

Unless you don't mean ordered but grouped as in going through a group of frequent words not by order of frequency.
Yes, it's the most frequent 2000 words sorted by kanji, then the most frequent 2001-4000 words sorted by kanji, etc. In reality, if you have a list of top 50,000 words with a frequency index, you can create another index that sorts the entire list by the KO2k1 Kanji list. From there, you can group the frequency words by 1000 or 500 or 100 or whatever then sort those subgroups by kanji. Only thing I like to do on top of that is spread out the kana only words.

Frequency to get words that are used, well, frequently. Sort by kanji to help learn those frequent words faster while keeping close to an i+1 method of learning.

Last thing I like to remind people is that every 15 new words should take about an hour to learn plus future reviews. Your time may vary but this should help decide if you want to invest another 60 more hours to systematically learn 1000 more words that might cover only 1% of the language.

Could you upload somewhere the KO2k1 kanji list?

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Xanpakuto - 2013-08-25

I'm going to try out this deck, it's an awfully big download though

Thanks!

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - killua - 2013-08-26

Regarding Core 6000, did you use the new iKnow version or the old Smart.fm one?

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Katsuo - 2013-08-26

pmnox Wrote:Could you upload somewhere the KO2k1 kanji list?

Kanji Odyssey 2001 (&2301)

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Vempele - 2013-08-26

Nukemarine Wrote:Last thing I like to remind people is that every 15 new words should take about an hour to learn plus future reviews.

That sounds extremely slow. There are 104 cards in my vocab deck: 1 suspended, 49 young and 54 mature. The total time I've spent on that deck is an hour and 10 seconds (950 reviews*3.8s/review).

4 minutes per word would mean 63 reviews per word on the initial day. And that's if same-day reviews aren't faster than regular ones.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Nukemarine - 2013-08-26

pmnox Wrote:Could you upload somewhere the KO2k1 kanji list?

Here's the spreadsheet I normally link to in the guide I made.

Kanken Spreadsheet

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - Nukemarine - 2013-08-26

Vempele Wrote:
Nukemarine Wrote:Last thing I like to remind people is that every 15 new words should take about an hour to learn plus future reviews.
That sounds extremely slow. There are 104 cards in my vocab deck: 1 suspended, 49 young and 54 mature. The total time I've spent on that deck is an hour and 10 seconds (950 reviews*3.8s/review).

4 minutes per word would mean 63 reviews per word on the initial day. And that's if same-day reviews aren't faster than regular ones.

There's no hard and fast rule here. The more detailed the initial study and how detailed your subsequent reviews are, the longer this takes. If you never write anything down, the reviews will go much faster. If you're writing down the word, kana of the word, and entire sentence for the initial study phase then only write down the word for reviews it'll take a little longer.

It makes sense if early on one spends more detailed time on initial study and reviews. As the vocabulary builds up, it may be that you find it pointless to write out simple sample sentences for words and just write out the vocabulary word. Later still, you may just mentally write out words in your head and only physically write out those you get wrong. As always, your results may vary.

By the way, unless I'm mistaken, Anki stops the timer on card reviews at 1 minute. If you take your time, you may be studying longer than Anki suggests that you did.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-26

killua Wrote:Regarding Core 6000, did you use the new iKnow version or the old Smart.fm one?

I use ones from "Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary" deck, which are from Smart.fm.

Is the Core 6k deck from iKnow's better than the old one from Smart.fm?

Nukemarine Wrote:
pmnox Wrote:Could you upload somewhere the KO2k1 kanji list?
Here's the spreadsheet I normally link to in the guide I made.

Kanken Spreadsheet

Thanks

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - killua - 2013-08-26

pmnox Wrote:
killua Wrote:Regarding Core 6000, did you use the new iKnow version or the old Smart.fm one?
I use ones from "Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary" deck, which are from Smart.fm.

Is the Core 6k deck from iKnow's better than the old one from Smart.fm?

It was updated. I assume in order to improve it. Smile

You can find the data here (there is also a link to the audio inside):
http://lri.me/japanese/core-6000.txt

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-26

I saw that deck before, but I didn't use it because it's a recognition deck. Let me explain.

Here is the first entry:
1 行くいく go verb 日曜日は図書館に行きます。にちようびはとしょかんにいきます。 I go to the library on Sundays. <ruby><rb>行</rb><rt>い</rt></ruby>く <ruby><rb>日曜日</rb><rt>にちようび</rt></ruby>は<ruby><rb>図書館</rb><rt>としょかん</rt></ruby>に<ruby><rb>行</rb><rt>い</rt></ruby>きます。 going day weekday day map write Bldg. going go okurigana 93 14592

All sentences that are listed here contain the word 行く(日曜日は図書館に行きます). For me it is easier to learn when I have cards with partial sentence like (日曜日は図書館に[] ) and English word "go" on the front. Then I would be able to figure out that I need to put the word 行く there.

I would have to edit those cards manually to make them like this. That's why I don't like the core-6000.txt deck.

On the other hand "Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary" comes with pre-made sentences that come in the format "冷蔵庫[れいぞうこ]が（　）しました。", etc. There is an empty hole that should which word I should put there. So far I didn't have much of the problem with translations that were in this deck. Sometimes, I had to add my own notes to make a distinction between some words, for example:

車 -> note 1k(1 kanji) car
自動車 -> note 3k(3 kanjis) car

プレゼンと - KA (katakana) - present
贈り物　- khk (kanji + hirakana + kanji) - present

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-26

I guess, I could just replace translations in my current deck using ones from core-6000.txt
I'm going to create a TO DO list of what needs to be done. Any other ideas?

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-26

Btw, are there any dictionaries that have the Japanese pitch accents written in them?

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - lauri_ranta - 2013-08-26

pmnox Wrote:All sentences that are listed here contain the word 行く(日曜日は図書館に行きます). For me it is easier to learn when I have cards with partial sentence like (日曜日は図書館に[] ) and English word "go" on the front. Then I would be able to figure out that I need to put the word 行く there.

The sentences with furigana had tags around the main word. But I edited the text file now to add tags for the sentences without furigana as well (like 日曜日は図書館に行きます). You can do a regex search and replace to replace .*? with [] in either column.

The newer version is not really any better in my opinion. See http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=185115#pid185115.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-27

Yes, you are right. Hmm. Maybe, I should include translations from both versions.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-27

I figured out how to attach information about the pitch accent to each word. I'm adding it to the to do list.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - muteki99 - 2013-08-27

pmnox Wrote:I have prepared the deck, but I'm planning to make some improvements.
So far I added pictures, and the sorted index based on list of all 3824 words, and the field that the sentence without the given word.

Here is the beta version of core10k - core6k deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/163007112
Here is the beta version of core6k - core2k deck:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/274832392
Let me know if you have any suggestions.

I need to find the frequency list so that I can divide those words into groups of 1k,2k cards and then sort them as well. I'll do that later.

Cangy said that he will send me tools that he used before. I'm going to make some changes to those decks once I get them.

These decks really interest me, if it includes audio+images for 2k+ which I didn't have in my 6k deck before. Also really would like to see the 2k~6k broken down and sorted in smaller 2k/1k groups instead of one 4k chunk. If that gets implemented I would definitely switch over/merge decks once I hit 2k in a month or two.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - tashippy - 2013-08-27

muteki99 Wrote:[i] would like to see the 2k~6k broken down and sorted in smaller 2k/1k groups instead of one 4k chunk.

Can I ask your rationale for this? My thinking is that I'll finish the deck eventually anyway, so having larger groups allows for more like kanji to be lumped together and easier to learn that way.
I'm not in Japan, though, so perhaps word frequency is more important if you are using the language for your daily life.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - muteki99 - 2013-08-27

tashippy Wrote:
muteki99 Wrote:[i] would like to see the 2k~6k broken down and sorted in smaller 2k/1k groups instead of one 4k chunk.
Can I ask your rationale for this? My thinking is that I'll finish the deck eventually anyway, so having larger groups allows for more like kanji to be lumped together and easier to learn that way.
I'm not in Japan, though, so perhaps word frequency is more important if you are using the language for your daily life.

It's a trade-off for sure. The more you break it down in frequency blocks, the less the benefit of sorting by similar kanji. Depends on how much importance you put on frequency or ease of learning. Obviously if you are resigned to learning all 10k the whole point is moot, but I don't see myself doing that.

For me personally, 2K blocks seem to be a nice happy medium. Especially for the first 4k/6k or so.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-27

muteki99 Wrote:
pmnox Wrote:I have prepared the deck, but I'm planning to make some improvements.
So far I added pictures, and the sorted index based on list of all 3824 words, and the field that the sentence without the given word.

Here is the beta version of core10k - core6k deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/163007112
Here is the beta version of core6k - core2k deck:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/274832392
Let me know if you have any suggestions.

I need to find the frequency list so that I can divide those words into groups of 1k,2k cards and then sort them as well. I'll do that later.

Cangy said that he will send me tools that he used before. I'm going to make some changes to those decks once I get them.
These decks really interest me, if it includes audio+images for 2k+ which I didn't have in my 6k deck before. Also really would like to see the 2k~6k broken down and sorted in smaller 2k/1k groups instead of one 4k chunk. If that gets implemented I would definitely switch over/merge decks once I hit 2k in a month or two.

I'm working right now on adding additional indexes. I'm going to start doing the core 6k-2k deck myself in a few days. So, I'm planning to finishing adding additional indexes before I start.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-27

I just restored the original indexes and I also added sorted indexes in 1k, 2k, 2k + 4k, 6k chunks.
I'm going to start working on adding the japanese pitch accent and copying translations from core6000.txt .

I'm going to release the finished version in a few days.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - ryuudou - 2013-08-27

Is it production only? Or does it have a template for recognition too?

Just curious.

Core 10k - optimized i+1 version - pmnox - 2013-08-27

ryuudou Wrote:Is it production only? Or does it have a template for recognition too?

Just curious.

You can modify the template for cards to change the format from production to recognition.

It's is rather simple to do. If you need any help with that I can post you the html templates for the recognition deck.