+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Remembering the Kanji (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: Just made a bet with my dad... (/thread-10924.html)
Just made a bet with my dad... - Animosophy - 2013-06-28
Crawdaddycon Wrote:If you would share that playlist with me that would be awesome.It's nothing special, really. It's an hour long, 9 songs, very upbeat. I listened to it for 12 weeks straight so that either says something about the music or my tolerance for repetition lol.
You can preview it from my tumblr http://animosophy.tumblr.com/
dl it here if you like it: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dijwerv9v7joid2/ywj2PWV_hp
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-28
pauro02 Wrote:Just an out of the topic maybe advice.. But I can swear it's effective... Don't think that you have a bet with your dad.. Think of it as a challenge to yourself,.. Just saying though...Definitely. It was something I wanted to do(I value challenges) and my dad laughed at me when I said I was going to try and do it in 4 weeks.
On an unrelated note, this kind of bet is certainly not the first I have had with my dad. The gas card mentioned in the original post was actually won by dropping 50 pounds in 5 months on a similar bet. 260-->210. (I'm 6'3 so I wasn't obese, just overweight) Now I'm ~10% body fat and I have unlimited gas, much to his distaste.
About this SRS method... The Anki software I am using, because I lack the great organizational skills that a few users are discussing, wants me to review the kanji that I know 4 days from now which isn't the SRS method. Is there a way to tweak the settings to get it to follow those guidelines?
Just made a bet with my dad... - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-06-28
Well, Anki is an SRS program so it is -an- SRS method ... based on how well you recognize things, the time keeps getting increased for each later review. Probably you mean it isn't the Leitner system's timing. Leitner's isn't the only possible timing and likely not the best possible timing.
However, if you feel it's giving you reviews too frequently or not frequently enough, you could simply choose differently on the three easy/medium/hard choices that represent 'passing' the card.
If you really want to tweak settings, you can go into Options for your deck, go to the 'Reviews' tab, and change the 'interval modifier'. A number higher than 100% will increase the time between reviews, a number less than 100% will decrease. ie. 200% will make the time between reviews twice as long as normal, and 50% will make it half as long as normal. Just remember that reviewing more frequently means more reviews every day and perhaps less time to learn new characters.
(There's a bunch of other timing settings too, but that's the most straightforward one.)
Just made a bet with my dad... - zurisu - 2013-06-28
Crawdaddycon Wrote:About this SRS method... The Anki software I am using, because I lack the great organizational skills that a few users are discussing, wants me to review the kanji that I know 4 days from now which isn't the SRS method. Is there a way to tweak the settings to get it to follow those guidelines?Anki is an SRS, but it's not the Leitner system (which was, I believe, talked about earlier in this thread) so it does have minor differences, but they both follow the same basic spaced repetition principles.
If you want Anki to show you cards more often, go to your deck's Options menu, then on the Reviews tab set the interval modifier to something under 100. I'm not really sure how much under 100 you should go... I mean, the lower it is, the more reviews you're going to have every day, and you're already going to have mountains of reps under your current conditions...
Normally I'd say to just leave it alone and trust Anki's default calculations, but since you have such an extreme goal, I don't really know! XD
EDIT: oops, ninja'd.
Just made a bet with my dad... - Aspiring - 2013-06-28
Just to clarify, the spacing algorithm is the same one used supermemo 2
Normal rates (q):
[Again] Relearn
[Hard] (...)
[Good] 100%
[Easy] 130%
From what I've calculated* 'good' at 100% keeps the interval slightly under 2x.
imo the default settings seem fine
*sm2 algorithm
http://www.supermemo.com/english/ol/sm2.htm
Just made a bet with my dad... - Vempele - 2013-06-28
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:(There's a bunch of other timing settings too, but that's the most straightforward one.)I find it useful to set "Steps (in minutes)" to something like 1 10 60 for new cards and 10 60 for lapses. If there's a kanji you can't even remember for an hour, better find out an hour from now than tomorrow.
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-28
When I stay in one location for too long I start getting kind of groggy and tired from studying. Does anyone else have a similar experience?
Like right now I'm at my house and I am just wiped out.
Just made a bet with my dad... - zurisu - 2013-06-28
Crawdaddycon Wrote:When I stay in one location for too long I start getting kind of groggy and tired from studying. Does anyone else have a similar experience?Make sure you are taking enough breaks to eat well, get some fresh air, stretch, etc. Nothing can curb your efficiency like skipping out on those sorts of things, so it's best to just make sure you do them.
Like right now I'm at my house and I am just wiped out.
But yeah, I experience a similar feeling after doing a lot of studying. I don't think it's uncommon. It might just be that your mind is getting bored and wants to shut down rather than continue through the drudgery. Maybe a quick nap will actually help?
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-28
Maybe. Do you guys ever go to a public place and study? Puts some head phones on? I'm wondering if that will help any.
Just made a bet with my dad... - uisukii - 2013-06-28
Crawdaddycon Wrote:When I stay in one location for too long I start getting kind of groggy and tired from studying. Does anyone else have a similar experience?Sounds like you need some stimulants and music to get your body into the process. 8mg of Albuterol provides a nice vibe but something like a strong cup of coffee and a decent stretch and shake (loosen up those joints and let your hair down) can really get you back in the mood.
Like right now I'm at my house and I am just wiped out.
Never underestimate the power of caffeine, stretching, music and planned frequent short breaks. Active body, active mind.
Crawdaddycon Wrote:Maybe. Do you guys ever go to a public place and study? Puts some head phones on? I'm wondering if that will help any.My study, er, study, it a little inappropriate for quiet places to study in public. I tend to move about, sit down, lay down; shout and swear when frustrated, cheer when things click; bounce my feet and legs around; talk things through aloud (as opposed to mulling it over in my head), sing, etc. Rather not be around other people during this process.
Just made a bet with my dad... - Hashiriya - 2013-06-28
listen to lots of instrumental music while you study... (i prefer game soundtracks) I can go for 12hours a day no problem as long as I got the right music. If you are into that, there is a lot of good music here: http://ocremix.org/albums/
Just made a bet with my dad... - Inny Jan - 2013-06-28
uisukii Wrote:I would love to see some kind of summarydizmox Wrote:I see. I've got a few questions in mind but they would only disrupt the thread. Might look to see if the search function could answer a few of them.uisukii Wrote:Which volume of Remember the Kanji are you referring to?The first one
Just made a bet with my dad... - masshemorrhoids - 2013-06-28
2000 kanji in 28 days is pretty simple if you have nothing else to do. I did 100 a day but broke them in to 2 groups of 50. I didn't spend too much time on the mnemonic allowing me to cover 50 in about 30 minutes. Had I not had to work, I'd have went for 200.
For me, the key is to do your recall test for the kanji in a separate anki deck that day within 30 minutes of having done the group. I do this to stress test my rough mnemonics to make sure the story wasn't so disconnected from the keyword that I wouldn't have a chance of remembering recalling it the next day. If I'm having trouble, I know I need to give the mnemonic a little more context or I just come here and see what stories other people have created. This takes about 30-40 minutes per group. At the end of the day, I go to my main anki deck and add all the new cards to be reviewed the next day.
Since I always hit 2, the new cards always get reviewed twice in 1 sitting once migrated into my main deck. So that's basically 200 reviews added everyday on top of whatever my previous review was. My total review time, done in the morning, would take between 2-4 hours(4-800 reviews). It's tough because it's boring as hell and I get drowsy after an hour.
Retention on some days would be around 85, but once you get around 600, you kinda have a feel for what kanji will likely be used when you hear a keyword and it becomes simpler. I didn't have trouble again until around 1800. At the 2000 mark, my retention was regularly around 95%.
Do yourself a favor and discard some of the primitive names he uses that are hard to weave into stories in the future. For instance, for 'power' I renamed it Goro from MK. For thread, I renamed it tarantula... It's far easier to come up with stories this way. I don't even need to word out my stories anymore(going into rtk3) I just vaguely picture some stupid scenario , like goro's 'dilligence' in throwing cabbage, Kanye 'West' putting himself on a 'ballot', 'open'ing sharon stone's legs in that movie she did, kermit the frog 'boil'ing in water...blablabla. Far easier than imagining random objects like gates and thread and connecting them to unrelated objects/ideas.
The only times my retention went down was when I tried to stick to Heisigs primitive meanings for stuff that had no clear meaning for me. When I saw this happening, I'd rename the primitive and then see how it changed the stories for the preceding kanji.
4-6 hours a day....what a drag.....I sure hope the benefits show themselves when I get to vocab after I finish rtk3, that's for darn sure! I just can't shake the feeling that i've wasted mass amounts of time and energy...
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-28
uisukii Wrote:lol. I went to hyvee for two hours today and ran into a similar problem with a few kanji.Crawdaddycon Wrote:When I stay in one location for too long I start getting kind of groggy and tired from studying. Does anyone else have a similar experience?Sounds like you need some stimulants and music to get your body into the process. 8mg of Albuterol provides a nice vibe but something like a strong cup of coffee and a decent stretch and shake (loosen up those joints and let your hair down) can really get you back in the mood.
Like right now I'm at my house and I am just wiped out.
Never underestimate the power of caffeine, stretching, music and planned frequent short breaks. Active body, active mind.
Crawdaddycon Wrote:Maybe. Do you guys ever go to a public place and study? Puts some head phones on? I'm wondering if that will help any.My study, er, study, it a little inappropriate for quiet places to study in public. I tend to move about, sit down, lay down; shout and swear when frustrated, cheer when things click; bounce my feet and legs around; talk things through aloud (as opposed to mulling it over in my head), sing, etc. Rather not be around other people during this process.
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-28
masshemorrhoids Wrote:2000 kanji in 28 days is pretty simple if you have nothing else to do. I did 100 a day but broke them in to 2 groups of 50. I didn't spend too much time on the mnemonic allowing me to cover 50 in about 30 minutes. Had I not had to work, I'd have went for 200.I run into the drowsy problem a lot and is what is keeping me from going super fast. I'm still trying to figure out something that works for me, so that being said I'll give what you said a try. I am also finding so problems with a few of his primitive meanings. Were not allowed to change the keyword though, right, as that compromises the actual meaning of the word?
For me, the key is to do your recall test for the kanji in a separate anki deck that day within 30 minutes of having done the group. I do this to stress test my rough mnemonics to make sure the story wasn't so disconnected from the keyword that I wouldn't have a chance of remembering recalling it the next day. If I'm having trouble, I know I need to give the mnemonic a little more context or I just come here and see what stories other people have created. This takes about 30-40 minutes per group. At the end of the day, I go to my main anki deck and add all the new cards to be reviewed the next day.
Since I always hit 2, the new cards always get reviewed twice in 1 sitting once migrated into my main deck. So that's basically 200 reviews added everyday on top of whatever my previous review was. My total review time, done in the morning, would take between 2-4 hours(4-800 reviews). It's tough because it's boring as hell and I get drowsy after an hour.
Retention on some days would be around 85, but once you get around 600, you kinda have a feel for what kanji will likely be used when you hear a keyword and it becomes simpler. I didn't have trouble again until around 1800. At the 2000 mark, my retention was regularly around 95%.
Do yourself a favor and discard some of the primitive names he uses that are hard to weave into stories in the future. For instance, for 'power' I renamed it Goro from MK. For thread, I renamed it tarantula... It's far easier to come up with stories this way. I don't even need to word out my stories anymore(going into rtk3) I just vaguely picture some stupid scenario , like goro's 'dilligence' in throwing cabbage, Kanye 'West' putting himself on a 'ballot', 'open'ing sharon stone's legs in that movie she did, kermit the frog 'boil'ing in water...blablabla. Far easier than imagining random objects like gates and thread and connecting them to unrelated objects/ideas.
The only times my retention went down was when I tried to stick to Heisigs primitive meanings for stuff that had no clear meaning for me. When I saw this happening, I'd rename the primitive and then see how it changed the stories for the preceding kanji.
4-6 hours a day....what a drag.....I sure hope the benefits show themselves when I get to vocab after I finish rtk3, that's for darn sure! I just can't shake the feeling that i've wasted mass amounts of time and energy...
For the 95% retention rate was it kanji-->keyword or keyword-->kanji?
I LOL'd at boiling hermit the frog I see that so vividly =D
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-28
Hashiriya Wrote:listen to lots of instrumental music while you study... (i prefer game soundtracks) I can go for 12hours a day no problem as long as I got the right music. If you are into that, there is a lot of good music here: http://ocremix.org/albums/There is some good stuff here! Thx man.
12 hours though is something I think most of us have to acclimate to because right now I am struggling just getting 7 done.
Just made a bet with my dad... - masshemorrhoids - 2013-06-29
Crawdaddycon Wrote:I run into the drowsy problem a lot and is what is keeping me from going super fast. I'm still trying to figure out something that works for me, so that being said I'll give what you said a try. I am also finding so problems with a few of his primitive meanings. Were not allowed to change the keyword though, right, as that compromises the actual meaning of the word?Keyword to kanji.
For the 95% retention rate was it kanji-->keyword or keyword-->kanji?
I LOL'd at boiling hermit the frog I see that so vividly =D
I don't change the keyword, just it's meaning as a primitive when used in other kanji.
Just made a bet with my dad... - pauro02 - 2013-06-29
Crawdaddycon Wrote:Don't think to much of the study method, but rather your habits... Try to figure out first of what is your habit in studying, of what would gonna make you retain stuffs .. It's useless to have a very thorough study method when your body psychologically will not consider it ... xD I can help you with regards to conditioning your mind studying, but I can't give you the exact study method as there are much better person here who can give you that.. If you are to ask me about my habit, my habit is studying during dawn, drinking coffee or eating dark chocolate along with it .. It is very much effective for me if I'am to memorize something that I WROTE .. yes hand written ... When I was in college, we are sometimes required to study a whole chapter for just a day .. So what I do is, I just listen and copy to what my teacher says, I don't give shits with the book as it was all discussed by our teacher, and when I got home, I'll give myself a very good sleep, and during dawn I wake up to study the HAND WRITTEN notes that I took from my teacher's very blubby mouth.. xDpauro02 Wrote:Just an out of the topic maybe advice.. But I can swear it's effective... Don't think that you have a bet with your dad.. Think of it as a challenge to yourself,.. Just saying though...Definitely. It was something I wanted to do(I value challenges) and my dad laughed at me when I said I was going to try and do it in 4 weeks.
On an unrelated note, this kind of bet is certainly not the first I have had with my dad. The gas card mentioned in the original post was actually won by dropping 50 pounds in 5 months on a similar bet. 260-->210. (I'm 6'3 so I wasn't obese, just overweight) Now I'm ~10% body fat and I have unlimited gas, much to his distaste.
About this SRS method... The Anki software I am using, because I lack the great organizational skills that a few users are discussing, wants me to review the kanji that I know 4 days from now which isn't the SRS method. Is there a way to tweak the settings to get it to follow those guidelines?
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-29
pauro02 Wrote:I similarly have found it very helpful to review the notes that I have taken when reading the RtK book as opposed to simply reading the RtK book. Something about reading what you have wrote or typed for that matter really jogs the memory.Crawdaddycon Wrote:Don't think to much of the study method, but rather your habits... Try to figure out first of what is your habit in studying, of what would gonna make you retain stuffs .. It's useless to have a very thorough study method when your body psychologically will not consider it ... xD I can help you with regards to conditioning your mind studying, but I can't give you the exact study method as there are much better person here who can give you that.. If you are to ask me about my habit, my habit is studying during dawn, drinking coffee or eating dark chocolate along with it .. It is very much effective for me if I'am to memorize something that I WROTE .. yes hand written ... When I was in college, we are sometimes required to study a whole chapter for just a day .. So what I do is, I just listen and copy to what my teacher says, I don't give shits with the book as it was all discussed by our teacher, and when I got home, I'll give myself a very good sleep, and during dawn I wake up to study the HAND WRITTEN notes that I took from my teacher's very blubby mouth.. xDpauro02 Wrote:Just an out of the topic maybe advice.. But I can swear it's effective... Don't think that you have a bet with your dad.. Think of it as a challenge to yourself,.. Just saying though...Definitely. It was something I wanted to do(I value challenges) and my dad laughed at me when I said I was going to try and do it in 4 weeks.
On an unrelated note, this kind of bet is certainly not the first I have had with my dad. The gas card mentioned in the original post was actually won by dropping 50 pounds in 5 months on a similar bet. 260-->210. (I'm 6'3 so I wasn't obese, just overweight) Now I'm ~10% body fat and I have unlimited gas, much to his distaste.
About this SRS method... The Anki software I am using, because I lack the great organizational skills that a few users are discussing, wants me to review the kanji that I know 4 days from now which isn't the SRS method. Is there a way to tweak the settings to get it to follow those guidelines?
Just made a bet with my dad... - Onara - 2013-06-29
I guess it is possible. But it's also a big sacrifice both mentally and physically. You won't have time to hangout with friends, make playlists or hangout on forums during these 4 weeks.
I currently know around 1500 kanji. This achievement took me nearly a year (mainly because I'm also memorizing the on and kuns as I go). It does get tiring at times. Retention plummets and rises in intervals. It's just the way it is.
I say as I always have. Try it out. Even if you fail you'll learn a lot from it. But you might lose your gas-thingy or whatever the bet was about.... so beware.
Just made a bet with my dad... - juniperpansy - 2013-06-29
Crawdaddycon Wrote:I run into the drowsy problem a lot and is what is keeping me from going super fast.I had this problem in uni. Napping didn't seem to help. What I did find helped a lot though was just to set a timer and spend 10-15min on the exercise bike and had tons on energy to study after. It helped a lot. If you don't have a bike I'm sure a bit of jogging helps as well.
Just made a bet with my dad... - dizmox - 2013-06-29
Inny Jan Wrote:There's nothing much to say... I just sat down with Anki and memorised them by brute force.uisukii Wrote:I would love to see some kind of summarydizmox Wrote:The first oneI see. I've got a few questions in mind but they would only disrupt the thread. Might look to see if the search function could answer a few of them.
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-29
juniperpansy Wrote:I'm going to try a light jog and see if that gets anything going next time.Crawdaddycon Wrote:I run into the drowsy problem a lot and is what is keeping me from going super fast.I had this problem in uni. Napping didn't seem to help. What I did find helped a lot though was just to set a timer and spend 10-15min on the exercise bike and had tons on energy to study after. It helped a lot. If you don't have a bike I'm sure a bit of jogging helps as well.
Any advice on how to keep this kind of labor entertaining anyone? I need your support and I earlier today I had the first doubtful thought of this campaign...
On another note a lot of the kanji are starting to fall into place really quickly, all at once. I expect to go over 100 today.
Just made a bet with my dad... - JapaneseRuleOf7 - 2013-06-29
buonaparte Wrote:Finally something interesting . . .I agree, this has been pretty amusing so far. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
Side bets anybody?
Just made a bet with my dad... - Crawdaddycon - 2013-06-29
dizmox Wrote:Wow sir very nice. That must have taken forever and a half.Inny Jan Wrote:There's nothing much to say... I just sat down with Anki and memorised them by brute force.uisukii Wrote:I see. I've got a few questions in mind but they would only disrupt the thread. Might look to see if the search function could answer a few of them.I would love to see some kind of summary