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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

So, I have the MEXT interview coming up and have been practicing my keigo like crazy recently...
I posted a lang-8 entry in keigo, and the corrections were all switching the keigo back to です・ます, and someone commented that stuff like でございます、いたします、etc are "so 100 years ago and too polite"...My teacher also said that よろしい is something a grandmother would use.

Should I use keigo in the interview? I know Japanese people say they don't know keigo (like the ワープロ馬鹿 that they are Tongue ) but I always figured that was being humble.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

I'm somewhat familiar with it(know the verbs, most rules and some tidbits), but I'm not overtly familiar with anything when it comes to actually using Japanese as opposed to recognizing it. I've almost no experience speaking it at all. Keigo in particular has so many exceptions and irregular usages (and seems to be ever-changing), so I guess I'd be more fluent-sounding in です・ます, but still.

Basically, my teacher said that in most cases I should opt for いい over よろしい, since it's "old". This was during keigo class, and she was surprised to see me pop a よろしい as an adjective).

So I'm not sure what to use... It seems common sense that I'd do the interview in Keigo, though =/, even if I'd be stumbling a lot.

The interview is in 3 weeks, but I haven't actually been "called" yet. Application ends this week, the exam is in 2 weeks and is shortly followed by the interview. I'm making preparations for the interview already since speaking is my weakest point. Worst case scenario, I improve my speaking skills in gneral, Best case scenario, I'm more prepared for the interview Smile.

Is keigo 古い？ - howtwosavealif3 - 2013-06-22

Written japanese and spoke Japanese are different. check out 面接 videos on YouTube. the japanese stuff you mentioned is too formal for a job interview. there's a time and place for all kinds of japanese but a job interview is not really enough for japanese that formal etc etc.
and here's an intersting interview on a talk/variety show where they featured a girl who failed 200 interviews even though she graduated from a really good school.



@ 6:23

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

I'm handing it in this week. I'm preparing for the written exam with my usual Japanese studies, but I switched most of the focus on speaking, temporarily. Since I'm trying to trick them into thinking my Japanese is good enough for me to study in Japanese (it's not, at the moment, but there's a whole year of study + the research time, so I'm sure it will be by then), I should work on everything =/.
I'm singing up this year mostly to see how the process is like and what I should work on for future attempts, but I'd like put up a good fight nonetheless.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - mpericks - 2013-06-22

Dead wrong.

Keigo is extremely important. I think maybe a native speaker might say it is never used because they don't even realize they go into that mode of speaking because it is nearly automatic for them.

This is one area where the "classes are worthless" people are also dead wrong. Keigo is one area where simply studying grammar and vocab and listening to audio will not get you to competence. You need to be taught about the interaction of language and culture. Classes are a great way to get that. Not the *only* way, but a great one.

Try going into a Japanese job interview and greeting your interviewer with the equivalent of "hey, man, what's up" and witness the results. Conversely, walking into the interview and saying "Greetings most honorable master, might I be permitted to desecrate the seat with my humble presence?" would also make you sound bad. You have to understand the level of keigo required.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

Arupan Wrote:I see. I don't know if the procedure is the same, but you will most likely have to score 250 out of 300 points on the Japanese test (83%). There are 3 sections - 初級 (JLPT N5/N4), 中級 (JLPT N4/N3/N2), and 上級 (JLPT N2/N1 + Extra (N0 lol)). There's a high chance that you'll have to guess on some of the Extras (I think they consist about 50% of this section), but you'll probably do somewhat fine if you're about JLPT N1 level.

You should also exercise on your kanji/word writing, since you have to actually write some of them on the test. Many forum members seem to neglect it, so I thought I'd give you a warning.
This is a bit weird... I've looked over past tests, and none had this separation, nor writing exercises. Some years it is chock full of 読解, some just grammar exercises, but all are multiple-choice =/.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

I have the past exams from http://www.studyjapan.go.jp/en/toj/toj0308e.html
Information regarding how things go is pretty scarce (or extraordinarily convoluted), but I was given to understand that the tests are the same for all embassies, and should be something like these ones.

I've seen comments from MEXT threads mentioning "we had something similar to the 2009 exam", so that reinforced my opinion... Though now that you mention it, the past exams are all before 2010 =/. Yikes.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

Hm. As long as they don't make me write an essay I should be okay. I can write, though I'm prone to lapsus and it's not very pretty handwriting. I guess I'll just wait and see. So far I'm still struggling to write that research proposal =).
(I think you can tell I only found out that we have this scholarship about a month ago)

Is keigo 古い？ - yudantaiteki - 2013-06-22

The problem is that there isn't just a blanket term "keigo" that covers every kind of polite Japanese, where you can say that it's either used or not. でございます is rarely used outside of clerk-customer situations. I don't know where your teacher is from, but when I was at Waseda, the professors and students used よろしい constantly (they also used 尊敬語 frequently, even when talking to other students sometimes if they were more advanced). The teachers also frequently used keigo talking to the students.

Is keigo 古い？ - vix86 - 2013-06-22

Arupan Wrote:>>OP
The order in your country has been reversed it seems. You did hand in your research project plan, right? If it's really more of a formality than a real interview, as I am lead to believe, then maybe you should prepare better for the written exam instead. But then again, it's your choice.
Thats how its done in the states as well, though its usually condensed at the US embassies. You hand in your project and if they pass you on the paperwork part, they'll call you in to take the exams in the morning and then interview you in the afternoon.

As for the OP. A lot of what I've read about the scholarship has lead me to believe they aren't expecting high level Japanese or even fluency from people. After all, there IS a reason why the scholarship allows for 6 months of intensive Japanese training. I think selling your research plan/idea is probably far more important than how perfect your Japanese is.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - buonaparte - 2013-06-22

敬語おもしろ相談室1/7：文化庁

!
mextchannel

Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

It says that I should write it in Japanese if i know Japanese, and since I'm signing up for research and grad school in Japanese, I'm writing it in Japanese (though progress is ridiculously slow). I pretty much had to dumb down my initial research ideas since I just couldn't express them properly =/. I'm fairly sure the other contestants will be following courses in English and won't have this problem (at least, no one studying Japanese in my Uni, nor from the other Japanese Uni in the country, is signing up for it).
Like i said, I don't think my chances are too high this year, but I want to at least give it a try.

I was hoping for a high-level intensive course, though, and I was thinking of stating that I still need to improve my Japanese, which is why I'd like to pursue studies in Japan... (too honest?).

@yudantaiteki She's from Okayama, I think. I'm just fascinated by all the exceptions there are in all things related to keigo, and how suddenly what I thought was normal can be considered dated... It seems like I'll never correctly guess if a word has お or ご before it, what with every single time I try being an exception to the general rules, for example.

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - Zgarbas - 2013-06-22

Japanese&English philology... and I'm planning on going to grad school for Japanese Literature. I only have the N2 diploma so far.

I still think I should be a bit humble about my Japanese, especially since I am at a turning point where going to Japan would be the optimal way to enhance my level (production, nuances, etc), and it's no secret that we have no material on language learning, or academic resources on Japanese culture in Romanian. Or classes beyond N3 level. (read: I'm aiming for 頑張る気持ち）

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-06-22

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Is keigo 古い？ - nadiatims - 2013-06-22

If you're uncertain, then stick to masu and desu.

Aside from a few set phrases, you just need to use polite language to show respect to your interviewers. I don't think you need to use especially humble language (like itashimasu) because your interviewers are not your bosses. Nor do you need to use super respectful language (i mean 尊敬語) when speaking to your interviewers as they are not your customers.

I think it's pretty hard to pick up keigo if you haven't worked in a Japanese company and been able to witness interaction between bosses, employees, clients, interviewees etc on a regular basis.

But as a foreigner, you can't go wrong with masu/desu.

Is keigo 古い？ - yudantaiteki - 2013-06-22

I agree with that. Definitely use desu/masu, I don't think you have an option here. But if you're not experienced with keigo it's more likely you'll mess it up than use it correctly. It can be very hard even for native speakers. 謙譲語 is especially hard to use.

I always advise my students that it's good to know basic keigo, but that you really need to wait until you are in a specific situation to know exactly how much keigo you're going to need to use. I also tell them that they need to base that decision on how they observe the native speakers behaving with each other, *not* what they are told by the native speakers.

But I was really surprised at just how much keigo was used at Waseda by the teachers and students. I never thought I would hear male professors talk to students in class using both 尊敬語 and 謙譲語, but it seemed to be standard practice there.

The e-mails were even more formal; here's a sentence from one from a student organizing a drinking party (XX being the writer's last name):
ご都合が定まっていらっしゃらなかった方々は、恐れ入りますが４日（月）までにXXへお知らせください。
ご欠席の場合でもご一報いただければありがたく存じます。

Is keigo 古い？ - Arupan - 2013-07-10

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