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+--- Thread: So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. (/thread-10877.html)
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Errol246 - 2013-07-05
I'm completely bummed out.
This morning a receptionist from my high school called to tell me that next year's Japanese classes will not be established after all. Too few people had signed up for the course, and therefore the school couldn't afford to create it.
I just finished the first year of Japanese (level B here in Denmark), which is equivalent to having finished the first genki book. The next level (A) would have picked up from where we left off this summer and start with Genki II. It's sad because I was really, really, REALLY looking forward to continuing my Japanese studies. Now I have to choose another subject to fill up the empty spot on my schedule.
So, in order to maintain my current level of Japanese (which is fairly low) and perhaps improve it, what would you recommend me to do? I already have Genki II, so I suppose I could start with that, and I'm at about 1624 kanji in RTK.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Rasmus
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - uisukii - 2013-07-05
Welcome to what myself and other autodidacts find as "pleasure"
Has there been a particular medium in which you have found yourself more motivated/interested in while studying any given subject over your learning history? Finding what you find "clicks" with you can be a very powerful tool of engagement in studying any subject- and more so in learning Japanese, as this forum alone has members with experience and even programs made to benefit almost any kind of learner.
The more you give of yourself the more we can share of ourselves.
(^^)
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Taishi - 2013-07-05
That's pretty much exactly what happened to me when I first started out, though I would hardly say my Japanese suffered from it. On the contrary it let me do my studies at my own pace, and in my own way. For me, that really sped up my learning rate. Since you seem very enthusiastic about learning, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing could happen for you.
It seems you've already gotten far enough in RTK that recognizing kanji shouldn't be too much of an issue. Which is a good thing, because that means you can start reading real Japanese sooner, which I see as a really important milestone. Don't wait until you feel ready, just dive head first into native material as soon as possible. Tae Kim's grammar guide is very good for getting a solid grammar base.
Another thing that I personally think is a good thing to keep in mind is that you don't have to make an effort to understand everything immediately, or to understand all the "why"s. In the beginning it'll probably take more effort than it's worth. And alot of the things that make you cringe now, might make total sense a week or a month later, without extra effort.
If you do make an attempt to read some real Japanese, and you understand almost nothing, just write down and learn all the unknown words in the text, and try to read it again a week later or so. A lot of the time it'll be much easier to understand the second time, and any grammar points you have issues with might clear up slightly.
If you want some easy native material that probably won't bore you, I'd suggest to read the manga よつばと.
That's just a few things from the top of my head. Also, get the firefox addon rikaichan/rikaisama (peraperakun for chrome i think), it'll make reading Japanese on the internet a LOT easier for you.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - tashippy - 2013-07-05
It's probably best for you to just drop out and study Japanese full time. =>
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Stian - 2013-07-05
Can't you take the subject as a external candidate (it's called "privatist" in Norwegian)? The plus-side is that you can at least use that time for Japanese study. The disadvantage would be that you have to travel somewhere to sit an exam or two...
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Errol246 - 2013-07-05
Taishi Wrote:...It seems you've already gotten far enough in RTK that recognizing kanji shouldn't be too much of an issue. Which is a good thing, because that means you can start reading real Japanese sooner, which I see as a really important milestone. Don't wait until you feel ready, just dive head first into native material as soon as possible. Tae Kim's grammar guide is very good for getting a solid grammar base.Thanks for your thorough reply. It's nice how you're able to point out all the positive aspects of this. Japanese was really my only motivation for going to that high school.
Another thing that I personally think is a good thing to keep in mind is that you don't have to make an effort to understand everything immediately, or to understand all the "why"s. In the beginning it'll probably take more effort than it's worth. And alot of the things that make you cringe now, might make total sense a week or a month later, without extra effort ...
... If you want some easy native material that probably won't bore you, I'd suggest to read the manga よつばと.
So you don't recommend that I continue with Genki II? I have it already. Is Tae Kim's better? I also have Japanese the Manga Way, which is good for reference. Your tips for learning make total sense. I just have trouble finding good, easy native material that I don't have to pay for - I have no money. See, in Denmark students are paid to study, but in order to get this money (which could also be called a grant) you need to have a certain amount of total hours of classes each week, and now that Japanese is cancelled I can't get paid for this month, plus I can't even sign up for another subject since the school is closing today. But I'll check out よつばと.
uisukii Wrote:Welcome to what myself and other autodidacts find as "pleasure"I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly, but let's see: When I was learning English I mostly excelled when I watched many TV shows, movies and played many video games. I also played MMORPG's at certain points in my life where I practiced my English a lot, but now I hate those games. Moreover, English is so widespread that you need to use it almost anywhere; in order to navigate the internet (I mean the GOOD sites) you need to understand English. Today I mostly read books in English.
Has there been a particular medium in which you have found yourself more motivated/interested in while studying any given subject over your learning history? Finding what you find "clicks" with you can be a very powerful tool of engagement in studying any subject- and more so in learning Japanese, as this forum alone has members with experience and even programs made to benefit almost any kind of learner.
The more you give of yourself the more we can share of ourselves.
(^^)
When I learned Spanish I benefited a lot from taking extracurricular classes. Plus I lived in Spain for one whole summer where I learned a sh*t load of vocab and got to practice my grammar every day.
With Japanese my options are more limited, but I've found a few penpals on japan-guide.com, whom I chat with once in a while. I enjoy reading graded reader material, but I can't afford bying the よむよむ books. My teacher used to supply us with those. Besides this I used to read a lot about grammar in Japanese the Manga Way, but eventually stopped when other subjects started taking up too much space.
tashippy Wrote:It's probably best for you to just drop out and study Japanese full time. =>No can't do, I need my high school diploma to get into university.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Zgarbas - 2013-07-05
Go with Genki 2 if you already have it. Beginner textbooks are mostly the same, regardless of which you choose to go with. Unless you hated genki 1 for some reason, then find something else
. It'll leave you around N4 level, and that's when the choice of material starts mattering. Basically any source you use up to N4 is going to have the same result, so don't worry about it too much.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - s0apgun - 2013-07-05
I'd recommend using Skritter in conjunction with your textbook. The program has pre-made vocabulary lists from various Japanese textbooks that you can use to SRS.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Errol246 - 2013-07-05
Zgarbas Wrote:Go with Genki 2 if you already have it. Beginner textbooks are mostly the same, regardless of which you choose to go with. Unless you hated genki 1 for some reason, then find something elseI don't know what level N4 corresponds to honestly. Is it low or high?
It'll leave you around N4 level, and that's when the choice of material starts mattering. Basically any source you use up to N4 is going to have the same result, so don't worry about it too much.
s0apgun Wrote:I'd recommend using Skritter in conjunction with your textbook. The program has pre-made vocabulary lists from various Japanese textbooks that you can use to SRS.I already use Anki where I have my own vocab deck which I add vocab to regularly. I tried the demo for Skritter, and it's kanji drawing feature is kind of neat, but it takes a long time to write a single character where I could have just written it on a piece of paper in a fraction of that time. Plus you have to pay for it. But thanks for the tip!
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - RawToast - 2013-07-05
Quote:I don't know what level N4 corresponds to honestly. Is it low or high?N4 level is often seen as 'Upper/Advanced beginner'. JLPT Bootcamp gives a nice description:
Quote:The N4 test covers basic Japanese. You should be able to understand basic passages written with basic vocabulary (1500-2000 words) and kanji (250-300). You should also be able to understand conversations about daily topics and activities spoken slowly.
The main aim of N4 in my opinion is to test your ability to survive with Japanese. At this level, you should be able to travel around the country fairly easily. This includes things like asking for directions, booking hotels, and being able to introduce yourself to others in Japanese. You’ll also be able to have basic small talk and be able to do some shopping as well.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Taishi - 2013-07-05
Yeah, I agree with Zgarbas, go with Genki 2. There's nothing wrong really with text books, they're good for starting out. I haven't read Japanese the Manga Way myself, though I imagine it can be a good tool to make studying a bit more interesting in the early stages. Though the goal is to eventually be able to read real native Japanese materials, and the earlier you start, the faster you'll be able to. One of the good things with Tae Kim's guide is that you can use it easily to look up something you don't understand (very good overview), or simply read it from start to finish to improve your overall grammar knowledge.
One thing that I think works very well to keep motivation up is to not think about how much or little you've learned the past few days. If you compare what you can understand now, with what you could a month ago, I'm certain you'll find that you've improved a lot. So if you think about how much you could understand in another month (instead of the next few days), that'll usually keep motivation up.
The thing about native material is that it'll usually be pretty tough to understand whenever you start. So you might as well start at a pretty early stage (with easy to understand materials of course, novels would be too big of a jump), once you get over that first hurdle, where you can, for instance, keep on reading new chapters of よつばと without too much trouble or looking up, that sure is a good feeling, and it'll give you something to fall back on if things get tough ahead.
One of the most important things, that I think most people on this forum would agree with me is, as long as you're having fun learning Japanese, it's just a matter of time before you improve. If you feel that learning Japanese is fun and relaxing you're more likely to spend more time doing it, thus learning more. You're also less likely to burn out.
I don't know what your interests and hobbies are, but if some of them are available in Japanese it's probably a good idea to use that as a source of learning. If it's too hard to understand, try going back to it a month later to see if you understand more.
Since you say you're short on material I'll try to provide you with some random links I have lying around.
Collection of short stories for children hover over unknown words with rikaichan to make it easier in the beginning. (probably the easiest to get started with out of these links). Has one story for each day of the year, and also audio available for each one.
Niconico douga not really for beginners, but it's like youtube for Japanese people, so I'm sure you can find something interesting there.
NHK News Easy Maybe not easy to the point of beginner easy, but I'm sure it makes life a lot easier if you want to be able to read news in Japanese.
Japanese texts ranked by difficulty, also takes up some cultural differences etc.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Errol246 - 2013-07-05
Thank you, Taishi.
I already know Hukumusume. My teacher gave us a story from there once, and I was able to understand it fairly easily. The next one he brought was hellishly difficult, and I haven't been able to find others that are just easy as the first one, though I'm sure they must be there.
I just found a few PDF's of the yomuyomu graded readers at level 2 (yea, I know I'm not 'supposed' to do that). They really are amazing stories, being able to read and understand stories such as these almost instantly at my own level gives immense satisfaction, but I understand that almost no real native material is going to be written in this style, so I have to start getting used to reading native material pretty soon. Maybe I'll do a few lessons in Genki and read all of these stories before I dive into the actual native material.
What do you guys think?
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Zgarbas - 2013-07-06
Sounds like a good plan
. I personally don't recommend any "real" native material until you've at least learned the basic grammar patterns (from genki 1&2). Stuff like yotsuba should be accessible even with your current level, though. There are plenty of volumes to keep you busy By the way, it's not like you particularly need to do this or anything, but lots of us use the JLPT levels to keep track/have goals of our level. It provides a tangible goal, and at least for me acts as a good motivator. Also, if you want to do anything that involves Japanese as a career, they're pretty much necessary. Genki 1 leaves you around the N5 level, 2 leaves you around the N4 (N1 is the highest). Self-study is 90% motivation, and tangible goals are a good way of maintaining that.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - ryuudou - 2013-07-06
Advice on most things.
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/ajatt-for-the-brave
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Errol246 - 2013-07-06
Thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it very much.
I'm kind of on the fence between choosing to continue with Genki II or with Tae Kim. I know that everybody loves Tae Kim's guide, but since I've already finished Genki I it seems like the most natural thing to continue with Genki, but I don't know. If Tae Kim's really is better, then it might be best to do that.
What do you guys think? And if I should decide to continue with Tae Kim, where should I start? The last thing I can remember being taught in Genki is のです and たり たりする in lesson 12.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - Stian - 2013-07-06
You could do parts of Tae Kim after Genki, since Genki is more beginner friendly
(...and features such a riveting love drama between Takeshi and Mary... just kidding :p)
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - undead_saif - 2013-07-06
I too recommend continuing with Genki 2. I think these beginners books helps a lot in smoothing the initial difficult step because they gradually cover several aspects of the language without pushing too much at the same time, then after having a basic foundation one can go deeper much easily.
Tae Kim's guide is super, but needs other materials for grammar to sink in, and the amount of vocabulary can be overwhelming.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - s0apgun - 2013-07-06
Why not do both?
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - daevil - 2013-07-06
.
So, I guess I'm self-studying now.. - ryuudou - 2013-07-07
I thought Tae Kim was written poorly and didn't clearly explain a lot of concepts. I think Japanese the Manga Way is much better. I didn't do Genki but I have the books, and it's probably also better if you think like me.