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箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - Printable Version

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箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - mustaflex - 2013-05-16

hi,

I am mining sentences and I came across this kanji: 箸 はし, and I learned with heisig without the drop. so the kanji is bamboo + someone. but when I looked it up in a dictionary there is a drop above "day" and it says the kanji stroke number is 15.

So Is Heisig wrong, or is there a drop in this kanji, maybe its a font problem but I don't know its really confusing.

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - comeauch - 2013-05-16

In short: with the drop.

It's a new addition to the Jouyou kanji list: http://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/pdf/jouyoukanjihyou_h22.pdf

The long story is that Heisig assumed that the characters that are not included in the Jouyou kanjis would be simplified in a similar way to those that are included. (the "traditionnal" way of writing this component was with the drop). However, recently, the Japanese gvt. decided that they should not be simplified. So that's why a bunch of non-jouyou kanji (i.e. RTK3) are a bit different. In most fonts, you'll find a "N" version (ex.: "MyFont" and "MyFontN") where the one with the N is with the new standard, aka. unsimplified forms.

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - comeauch - 2013-05-16

You might also notice that in the same document, before the list of characters, they specify that the usual simplifications are OK to use for handwriting. So in the end, it doesn't matter much ;P

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - mustaflex - 2013-05-16

-__- thank you very much, at least now I know the origin of the drop.

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - undead_saif - 2013-05-16

Yes, thank you! This is the first time I learn about this.

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - OzarM - 2013-05-16

I don't get it. So it's supposed to have the drop (Even though I can't see one in any dictionary I use, nor can I find one with a drop outside of that PDF) even though there's no drop in the computer font 箸 version?

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - uisukii - 2013-05-16

OzarM Wrote:箸
If it is any consolation, I can clearly see the drop above 日 (well, above 口, as the computer rendered the font without the extra stroke). If you are using Rikaichan hovering over said kanji shows the kanji enlarged with every stroke, including the drop.

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - yudantaiteki - 2013-05-16

OzarM Wrote:I don't get it. So it's supposed to have the drop (Even though I can't see one in any dictionary I use, nor can I find one with a drop outside of that PDF) even though there's no drop in the computer font 箸 version?
My font has the drop there, so it depends on your computer. But whether it's "supposed" to or not is unclear. I personally don't understand the Joyo List's recommendations; the whole thing never made much sense to me in the first place because it's stupid to have to remember whether a kanji is on the JY list or not to know whether to use the drop or not.

Short answer is that it's not a big deal.

(As for dictionaries, I have two electronic dictionaries -- one of them does not show the drop, the other shows both versions. That may have something to do with which one is included in the fonts, or it could be because one is the kanjigen and the other the shin kangorin. I have no idea.)

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - OzarM - 2013-05-16

uisukii Wrote:
OzarM Wrote:箸
If it is any consolation, I can clearly see the drop above 日 (well, above 口, as the computer rendered the font without the extra stroke). If you are using Rikaichan hovering over said kanji shows the kanji enlarged with every stroke, including the drop.
Huh. My Rikaichan doesn't show the drop. *shrug*

箸: Chopsticks, with or without the ***ing drop. - yudantaiteki - 2013-05-16

It has nothing to do with Rikaichan, it's the font. If your font doesn't have the drop, Rikaichan's not going to show it.