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+--- Thread: Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination (/thread-10731.html)
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - HonyakuJoshua - 2013-04-25
a cookie lol......... no, i dont want anything. I am happy with what I have in life. I think people from appalling backgrounds should be given advantages by the state which their parents don't give them, and this should be done in a non-patronizing way.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - nadiatims - 2013-04-26
HonyakuJoshua Wrote:I think people from appalling backgrounds should be given advantages by the state which their parents don't give them, and this should be done in a non-patronizing way.I agree with the sentiment. That's why I'd be for a voucher system and a free market place for education ensuring supply of quality education matches demand. But I think affirmative action is inherently unfair because as long as people are competing for limited places, it results in non-admittance of students for being too "middle class" or too "white," as if they have any choice in the matter. So AA doesn't eliminate disadvantage it just shifts it too make up for assumed past injustice (sins of the father?). Really though if higher education was more directly market driven, and was actually about education rather than an elaborate form of insurance (for a better life), there would be a supply of affordable options to meet demand.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - HonyakuJoshua - 2013-04-26
Nadiatims- my view of this is it doesn't understand how hard certain people have to work to get qualifications and how inherently biased the system is in favour of a minority of people in society. I think the whole thing needs to be overhauled on a massive scale.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - nadiatims - 2013-04-26
What concrete suggestions would you make?
I agree that the education is due for a big overhaul.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - HonyakuJoshua - 2013-04-26
Nadiatims If your relative was in prison I would recommend support groups at school for such people. I would also make it compulsory for them to go (at least once) to groups where drugs were not taken and increase there socialization with people who are not involved with violence, rape etc. I think changing the way people socialize is key to reducing crime.
I would try and make education more holistic as that is the only way I really believe it can help the underclass.
I would cut down on essay writing as I believe it is (partly) responsible for idiots getting qualifications, and people being in jobs they cant do. I would return to rote learning. I would also make it much harder to become a teacher as I know many people who do this job because they cant do anything else.
I would also give children the opportunity to do jobs at school to
1 get them used to working
and
2 raise their sense of self esteem
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - nadiatims - 2013-04-26
honyaku Wrote:If your relative was in prison I would recommend support groups at school for such people. I would also make it compulsory for them to go (at least once) to groups where drugs were not taken and increase there socialization with people who are not involved with violence, rape etc. I think changing the way people socialize is key to reducing crime.This should be left to individual schools and the market place to decide. If a school serving a lot of under privileged kids decided that was an effective thing to do, then they would do so. If schools had more autonomy they would be better able to do things like this.
honyaku Wrote:I would cut down on essay writing as I believe it is (partly) responsible for idiots getting qualifications, and people being in jobs they cant do.This should be left to individual schools and the market place to decide. If there is demand for essay writing skills from universities or employers then schools should probably be providing it.
honyaku Wrote:I would also make it much harder to become a teacher as I know many people who do this job because they cant do anything else.If schools were privatized, teachers would be paid based on performance (as in any other profession) and bad teachers wouldn't last nearly as long. Talent could be lured and kept in the profession.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - Irixmark - 2013-04-26
nadiatims Wrote:Oh yes. I'm sure if we had a tenure system for teachers like at universities, that would do wonders. Say you had to prove for six years that you can actually teach students, and only the top 50% of new teachers in each school would get permanent jobs (i.e. effectively for life in most places). That wouldn't even require privatization of education but could in principle be implemented in a state-funded system as well, provided unions have no power over this. After all public universities also have tenure reviews, often quite tough at the better places.honyaku Wrote:I would also make it much harder to become a teacher as I know many people who do this job because they cant do anything else.If schools were privatized, teachers would be paid based on performance (as in any other profession) and bad teachers wouldn't last nearly as long. Talent could be lured and kept in the profession.
Actually I think most teachers are OK (most people are around average at whatever they do) but it would be great if the total failures could be fired.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - HonyakuJoshua - 2013-04-26
I think a lot of teachers are incompetent and frankly dangerous. Nadia - how would you gauge teacher's performance? surely it would be subjective?
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - Irixmark - 2013-04-26
Just stumbled upon this nice paragraph:
Quote:In England, for example, almost every aspect of the various reforms was reviewed and reorganized. They reformed “the funding of schools, the governance of schools, curriculum standards, assessment and testing, the inspection of quality, the role oflocal government, the role of national government, the range and nature of national agencies, the relationship of schools to communities, school admissions. . . ” Yet a report published by the National Foundation for Education Research in 1996 demonstrated that between 1948But also: in maths and reading, having a teacher at the 75th percentile in assessed quality as opposed to 25th percentile moves the average student from the 50th to 58th percentile in test scores.
and 1996, despite 50 years of reform, there had been no measurable improvement in
standards of literacy and numeracy in English primary schools.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - Irixmark - 2013-04-26
Actually upon reading some more, I'm withdrawing my proposal above.
Quote:School systems therefore have two options for selecting teachers.
Option 1: The first model selects people before they start their teacher training and limits places in the training program to those who are selected.
Option 2: The second model leaves the selection process until after the prospective teachers have graduated from teacher training and then selects the best graduates to become teachers.
While almost every school system in the world uses the second option, most of
the top-performers use variations on the first.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - corry - 2013-04-26
Irixmark Wrote:Oh yes. I'm sure if we had a tenure system for teachers like at universities, that would do wonders.I thought you were being sarcastic but it seems you were serious.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - HonyakuJoshua - 2013-04-26
corry - are you actually going to put an argument up or just sit there calling him an idiot?
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - corry - 2013-04-26
I guess not.
I dont think I really disagree with what he was trying to say.
Encouraging People from Bad Backgrounds, Positive Discrimination - dizmox - 2013-04-29
As it stands there are not enough teachers. I'm not sure reducing the level of job security in teaching to the level of academic employment is going to draw many bright graduates unless the pay is very high.
GL offering a low cost solution while paying your teachers salaries that compete with the city.