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A random moan about fonts - Printable Version

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A random moan about fonts - Rusty - 2013-03-29

It just seems odd to me. This is a book which claims to teach you how to write the kanji. And it is brilliant - I am at 1,500 and going strong for the top! But the kanji in the book use 'print' fonts not 'handwriting' fonts and I believe the two are often quite different. So actually it shows you how to type the kanji. But I am not a typewriter! I suppose the advantage is that you can recognise printed kanji better. Any thoughts anyone?

A random moan about fonts - uisukii - 2013-03-29

Anki is free, download Anki.

Download the RtK deck.
Download a unicode 'handwriting' Japanese font.
Install said font.

Find out how to change said font in Anki.
Change the deck font.
*Create a backup of the deck. Use backup of said deck as a different deck. As you read through RtK, have said deck open and use it as an initial review/mnemonic familiarizing study session prior reviewing it in your actual RtK review deck.

*In Anki 2, you can create a temporary study deck which doesn't effect the other decks, so you don't even have to create a secondary deck. Problem solved. Stop moaning.

A random moan about fonts - TwoMoreCharacters - 2013-03-29

But at the times the stroke order is shown it's in a font closer to hand writing?

The main idea isn't really "how to write them", it's about how to produce them in your head--recalling the parts they're made of--with the help of the imaginative memory. I don't see how you've got much use for the way the characters are shown on the left of every frame, as you're reviewing them. You're just recalling the story, and writing out the radicals the way you've learned to write them along the way.

Are you thinking of the reviewing system on this site? I don't know, if you'd use Anki you could have custom fonts.
http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Japanese.html

I think I'm using the one called EPSON 正楷書体Ｍ
[Image: 14212.png]

A random moan about fonts - dizmox - 2013-03-29

Edit: sorry, probably misunderstood OP.

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the "computer fonts" as the ideal for one's handwriting. Your handwriting will look very clean and easy to read if your characters are close to the RTK font.

On the off chance that OP was referring to the distinction between 楷書体、行書体 and 草書体, the last two aren't worth worrying about at this stage (or possibly any stage); 楷書体 is appropriate for typed and handwritten text.

A random moan about fonts - gombost - 2013-03-29

Search for 手書き in Google and take a look at the images. I'd rather read a handwriting similar to regular script ordinary printed characters than one of those illegible scribbles.

EDIT: I want dizmox to be happy Big Grin

A random moan about fonts - dizmox - 2013-03-29

gombost Wrote:Search for 手書き in Google and take a look at the images. I'd rather read a handwriting similar to regular script than one of those illegible scribbles.
Actually everything that comes up for 手書き (for me anyway) is 楷書体　(regular script) (though I know what you want to say).

Not regular script:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:Lanting_P3rd.jpg
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:Treatise_On_Calligraphy.jpg

A random moan about fonts - TwoMoreCharacters - 2013-03-29

If you'd want to practice a native looking handwriting (good luck), it seems like overkill to me to do it during the early kanji learning stage. That would seem better suited as a long term goal to start pursuing after you're familiar and pretty accomplished in writing first.

The key differences here and there between print and handwriting such as in 言 aren't difficult to keep track of though.

A random moan about fonts - Rusty - 2013-03-29

Thanks for the replies everyone. Sounds like for beginners the printed font may be best and worry about handwriting later. Cheers and see you in 500 kanji's time (I hope!).

A random moan about fonts - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-03-29

I use the stroke order font from http://www.nihilist.org.uk/ , as do any number of other people on this site since I learned about it here. It gives standard 'pencil' writing style with stroke numbers marked near the start of each stroke. It's pretty much ideal for the back side of kanji cards, and pretty much terrible for anything else.

Also I don't think it's ever too soon to take care with your handwriting. Handwriting is an ingrained habit that once formed is hard to remedy.

A random moan about fonts - ktcgx - 2013-03-31

Honestly, I think that writing out the characters in a printed style way mimics how we learn to write our ABCs. You start off having to print everything, then slowly get a feel for how the characters/ letters are formed, and from there the flowing handwriting style develops naturally.

I wouldn't worry too much about trying to write "handwriting style" from the get go. It will develop naturally over time.

A random moan about fonts - TwoMoreCharacters - 2013-03-31

Yeah, but you wouldn't write "4" or "a" the way they are here.

A random moan about fonts - yudantaiteki - 2013-03-31

ktcgx Wrote:Honestly, I think that writing out the characters in a printed style way mimics how we learn to write our ABCs. You start off having to print everything, then slowly get a feel for how the characters/ letters are formed, and from there the flowing handwriting style develops naturally.

I wouldn't worry too much about trying to write "handwriting style" from the get go. It will develop naturally over time.
I've seen people say this but I don't think it's true. If you a foreigner who isn't seeing examples of native handwriting it won't work. I developed my own "natural" handwriting style but I've been told by multiple native speakers that while it's legible, it looks odd and they can tell it's not a native speaker writing it.

A random moan about fonts - stehr - 2013-03-31

Buy the 3rd edition of RTK if you can find it, all the characters and strokes are hand-penned by a Japanese calligrapher.

A random moan about fonts - ktcgx - 2013-03-31

yudantaiteki Wrote:
ktcgx Wrote:Honestly, I think that writing out the characters in a printed style way mimics how we learn to write our ABCs. You start off having to print everything, then slowly get a feel for how the characters/ letters are formed, and from there the flowing handwriting style develops naturally.

I wouldn't worry too much about trying to write "handwriting style" from the get go. It will develop naturally over time.
I've seen people say this but I don't think it's true. If you a foreigner who isn't seeing examples of native handwriting it won't work. I developed my own "natural" handwriting style but I've been told by multiple native speakers that while it's legible, it looks odd and they can tell it's not a native speaker writing it.
Well, I can say it's definitely the case that I've developed a handwriting style naturally. It took until I started doing RTK for it to happen, because I didn't know the correct stroke orders before. I discovered I'd been writing some characters wrong for years. I've never had any teacher tell me my handwriting looks weird, and neither have my students, and they tend to be very vocal about pointing that kind of thing out :p

A random moan about fonts - Tzadeck - 2013-03-31

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:Yeah, but you wouldn't write "4" or "a" the way they are here.
This is a good point because this is really the only kind of thing you need to be worrying about. Some kanji really are written quite differently than they are produced on a computer (for example, nobody writes the top stroke in 言 anything like how it looks on a computer), and you should know about those difference. But, beyond that, I think it's a big waste of time to actually make an effort to immitate native handwriting overall.

A random moan about fonts - pcrequest - 2013-03-31

I think there is value in trying to get the fonts to look like how you should write them. And this is not to be confused with the reduced cursive adults use to handwrite notes.

I've set my Anki decks to use the Epson font described by an earlier reply and I think it's a great idea. Here's what the authors of Genki say in their introduction:

"The Japanese in the basic text is set mainly in the Textbook font, which resembles
handwriting and serves as a good model for students. Students will encounter a variety
of fonts used for Japanese materials, however, and should be aware that the shape of
some characters differ considerably, depending on the font used, Note especially that
with some characters, we find two separate strokes in one style are merged into a single
stroke."

Then they show some examples in Textbook, Mincho, Gothic, Handwriting fonts. Their "Textbook" and "Handwriting" fonts are similar.

A random moan about fonts - Diomira - 2013-10-19

As I learn the Kanji I've been doing two things to revise them: (1) using the flashcards on this site for remembering and recognition, and (2) using an iPad app called Kanji LS for actual writing.

The kanji LS app deals well with the handwriting vs print issue. What it does is this: it gives you a keyword and you write the kanji on the screen. Once you've written it, hit 'solve' and it'll compare what you just wrote against the proper character, stroke by stroke if you want (this is a brilliant way to easily check if you're getting the stroke order and direction right).

But the best bit is you can toggle between a handwritten or printed version of the reference character. It's been really good for seeing which bits of a printed character are exaggerated in handwriting, and which ones are ignored (eg certain 'hooks' at the end of some characters etc).

I get a feeling that this is a not-insignificant part of learning kanji - getting a feel for how the shapes translate into written script. In any case, the app has been a really important part of my learning process.

[Just realised I've had a pretty gushy rant about the app and probably need to make clear that I have nothing to do with it other than as a user, lol.]

A random moan about fonts - Bokusenou - 2013-10-19

I'd say don't worry about it for now. I did RtK, and after a while, when I had learned words/grammar, etc I realized I had a hard time reading handwriting, so I switched all my anki decks to yozfont. (mikachan, moon, or other handwriting fonts should work just as well) Sometime after I did this I realized handwriting had gotten so much easier to read for me. In other words, you could always pick it up easily later.