Learning kanji while high - Printable Version

Learning kanji while high - Printable Version

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Learning kanji while high - Animosophy - 2013-03-11

I'm not a regular smoker, I use weed maybe once or twice a month for social reasons. But today...

I happened to come across an article that piqued my interest, just before I was about to do my daily reviewing.

Quote:A new paper published in Psychiatry Research sheds some light on this phenomenon, or why smoking weed seems to unleash a stream of loose associations. The study looked at a phenomenon called semantic priming, in which the activation of one word allows us to react more quickly to related words. For instance, the word “dog” might lead to decreased reaction times for “wolf,” “pet” and “Lassie,” but won’t alter how quickly we react to “chair”.

Interestingly, marijuana seems to induce a state of hyper-priming, in which the reach of semantic priming extends outwards to distantly related concepts. As a result, we hear “dog” and think of nouns that, in more sober circumstances, would seem to have nothing in common.

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2010/03/10/marijuana-and-divergent-thinki/

Emphasis mine.

I felt crappy from forcing myself to go through 150 new cards yesterday (many of which I felt needed more attention put into them), so I figured I'd get high and see how I do. I thought, "if it's a disaster, I'll know not to try it again", but my retention rate today was...

Studied 294 cards in 152 minutes today.
Again count: 9 (96.9% correct)
Learn: 0, Review: 285, Relearn: 9, Filtered: 00

If I don't/can't produce a kanji from its keyword, it's always "Again", no exceptions.

I'm pretty surprised. Granted, I spent 50% longer per card of average (mostly from basking in the bliss of how good the music sounded and humouring myself over the stories), but clearly that didn't affect my recall.

面白いですよね？

Learning kanji while high - uisukii - 2013-03-11

I'm not really surprised getting high allows the brain to associate certain things easier than while sober. The stress relief alone would help.

Learning kanji while high - Animosophy - 2013-03-11

The thought that it would affect my short term memory made me doubtful at first, but I suppose imagination is very different from rote memorisation.

uisukii Wrote:The stress relief alone would help.

Yup, I almost enjoyed it too much.

Learning kanji while high - haplochant - 2013-03-11

When I was doing RTK, I found it to affect my initial acquisition of the kanji when learning new ones (if I learned a story while in an altered state, I had a lot of trouble remembering the next day while sober), but I can't remember ever doing my reviews that way.

It's a less than once-a-month thing for me, but, I have found it makes reading Japanese significantly less painful/more enjoyable. I'll read through entire volumes of manga/short stories in one sitting, something I rarely do otherwise. Although, it could just be that it doesn't stress me out as much when I encounter things I don't know.

Learning kanji while high - radical_tyro - 2013-03-11

this is interesting. if anyone has more references on the effect of altered states to learning or performance, etc, please share.

OP: how does that 97% figure compare to normal? maybe we can all collect data and write up our findings Smile

Learning kanji while high - Aspiring - 2013-03-11

hahahahahaha interesting
Weed releases chemicals that prevent Alzheimer's, I hear.
All those chemicals flowing in your brain must help the memories flow too.

Anything that stimulates or helps the chemicals work properly probably helps.

coffee/tea, eating healthy, and exercise is also a possible alternative that doesn't work as quickly or effectively

I like the idea of getting a very mild hit before some reps, though

Learning kanji while high - radical_tyro - 2013-03-11

also, i believe that marijuana increases your foreign language listening comprehension. this isn't surprising since it allows you to focus on it and hear it more clearly. such training should carry over at least somewhat while sober.

Learning kanji while high - Aspiring - 2013-03-11

yeah,

you're less self-conscious and more open to learning, without fear of messing up,
like a kid

Learning kanji while high - Animosophy - 2013-03-12

haplochant Wrote:It's a less than once-a-month thing for me, but, I have found it makes reading Japanese significantly less painful/more enjoyable. I'll read through entire volumes of manga/short stories in one sitting, something I rarely do otherwise. Although, it could just be that it doesn't stress me out as much when I encounter things I don't know.

This is where I think it's most beneficial in language learning. Anything involving listening, reading, self-expression, creativity and imagination. There are some things like grammar that require analytical thinking (and some forms of listening and reading), which cannabis suppresses, so clearly using it while studying those elements of language has obvious limitations.

radical_tyro Wrote:this is interesting. if anyone has more references on the effect of altered states to learning or performance, etc, please share.

OP: how does that 97% figure compare to normal? maybe we can all collect data and write up our findings

These are results from the previous 5 days...

Again count: 11 (95.6% correct)
Again count: 25 (90.2% correct)
Again count: 12 (91.8% correct)
Again count: 12 (93.7% correct)
Again count: 13 (94.9% correct)

Averaging low 90s (I practically do nothing but kanji/japanese stuff all day because I have the time, it's not down to my [average] memory), and 96.9% is the best result I've ever had. There was clearly no negative affect on memory retrieval. Today I got the same result:

Studied 195 cards in 63 minutes today.
Again count: 6 (96.9% correct)
Learn: 0, Review: 183, Relearn: 12, Filtered: 0

Learning kanji while high - Aspiring - 2013-03-12

Using weed once while learning kanji probably has long lasting effects on memory

&You might have gained more confidence learning kanji, just because of that one session

Learning kanji while high - yuri123 - 2013-03-12

Past the kanja....MAN

Learning kanji while high - uisukii - 2013-03-12

yuri123 Wrote:Past the kanja....MAN

More like past the kanja... 人

Learning kanji while high - Irixmark - 2013-03-12

You should at least randomly pick the days when you light up before your reviews, collect the data, and then we can calculate if there's a statistically significant difference in the mean numbers of correct answers.

Would be intriguing, though. You could alternate this with other strategies that research on problem-solving has found to be effective, e.g. here
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.concog.2012.01.002

Learning kanji while high - uisukii - 2013-03-12

You could also just plow through it in a few weeks and continue to do the reviews till they get pretty small on the daily amount numbers.

Even it it means you're somewhat brute forcing those kanji into your head, it's still probably faster than trying different methods to see which is fractionally more efficient, considering that going through RTK is something like less than a fraction of a percent of the actual learning and acquisition of Japanese (that isn't to say it isn't very useful).

Learning kanji while high - Animosophy - 2013-03-12

Alcohol? Never would've guessed. Not with my (limited) experiences, anyway.

I don't mind giving it a go. It'll be cheap since I'm incapable of performing basic tasks beyond 4 pints of cider, and the weed is free.

I've got 2000 unseen cards left to go, and if I drop down to 80 new kanji/day, that gives me a little over a month of steady reviewing to work with. I know RTK is merely a small step towards overall mastery, but that's probably why I like going through it so quickly.

Is a random distribution of sober/high/inebriated days better than doing each in order? Mixing them up could create an issue of residual effects lasting into the next day. Maybe I should review sober for a week, then high for a week, then sober for another week, then drink for a week, while minimising any uncontrolled variables in my study environment (won't be too difficult).

Learning kanji while high - Irixmark - 2013-03-12

No, you'd have to randomize at least the days, and then we would only know how it works for you... but that's at least something. The alcohol thing also only seems to work for math problems, I'm not sure it'll help for Japanese at all. I can't say that weeks on end with too much drinking in Japan ever did much for my Japanese.

Also probably not a good idea to cycle weeks off and on. Better one day high, one week off, one day inebriated, one week off... wouldn't want to encourage anything that could affect your health.

Learning kanji while high - TheVinster - 2013-03-12

Animosophy Wrote:and if I drop down to 80 new kanji/day

At first I was like, "Holy shit, 80 cards a day," then I realized they were just kanji cards and not actual vocabulary or anything.

Learning kanji while high - uisukii - 2013-03-12

TheVinster Wrote:
Animosophy Wrote:and if I drop down to 80 new kanji/day
At first I was like, "Holy shit, 80 cards a day," then I realized they were just kanji cards and not actual vocabulary or anything.

Do you really find them that different? Vocab cards are by far the fastest cards in my Anki deck. It's either know the word within a few seconds or hit fail; compared to particle or grammar close cards, wherein I pretty much read the entire sentence and get a feel for which particle/usage feels right within the context, then letting it sink in for a second before hitting "show answer".

How do you review your vocabulary cards?

Learning kanji while high - Animosophy - 2013-03-13

Irixmark Wrote:No, you'd have to randomize at least the days, and then we would only know how it works for you... but that's at least something. The alcohol thing also only seems to work for math problems, I'm not sure it'll help for Japanese at all. I can't say that weeks on end with too much drinking in Japan ever did much for my Japanese.

Also probably not a good idea to cycle weeks off and on. Better one day high, one week off, one day inebriated, one week off... wouldn't want to encourage anything that could affect your health.

I guess I'll stick with the one psychoactive drug then. Heads for normal reviewing, tails for experimental. Tails automatically means a break the next day, and flipping heads on an off-day means an extra day of normal reviewing until I flip tails again.

As for doing lots of cards, I do them in the morning immediately after eating. There's no other time of day when I have anywhere near as much energy and interest.

Learning kanji while high - uisukii - 2013-03-13

What about trying out ice? All that extra time not sleeping, surely you'll have plenty of time to do an extra few thousand reviews.

Learning kanji while high - Thora - 2013-03-13

It might depend on what you're smoking:

Key ingredient staves off marijuana memory loss(cannabidiol)

Quote:Smoking cannabis has long been associated with poor short-term memory, but a study now suggests that the strain of cannabis makes all the difference.

In short, strains of cannabis containing a higher ratio of THC to cannabidiol are thought to cause more memory impairment. Some of the stuff, at least where I live, is very high in THC - its bred for that. There are also different kinds of cannabidiol, and some say that makes a difference too.

I have musician friends who will smoke before practicing so long as they're aren't trying to memorize something. I think it helps them get through the many hours it takes to work out complicated sections of long pieces. Also, maybe working on technique, muscle memory or dusting off previously learned pieces is somehow different than analyzing and memorizing a new one.

How marijuana impairs memory

Quote:Marijuana's effects on memory are controlled by hitherto neglected brain cells called astrocytes

As for alcohol: When I did RTK, I noticed that I had lower recall on those sets of kanji I had studied while having one or two glasses of wine. I can't be sure that was the cause, but it seemed to line up. I later learned that alcohol impairs new memory formation but doesn't affect recall of established memories. It seems kind of obvious that wine and study aren't a wise combination, but I was kind of surprised that a relatively small amount might have such an effect.

The study posted by irixmark seems to be about alcohol's beneficial affect on some kind of creative problem solving. So maybe it'll help you come up with better stories. Best write them down, though, as you might not remember them. haha

Learning kanji while high - chamcham - 2013-03-13

Well, people who smoke pot often forget to attend school anymore.
That's proof enough for me... Sad

Learning kanji while high - Animosophy - 2013-03-14

^ correlation =/= causation Sad

There's also this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_and_memory

If anything, it suggests it could be worse for me in the long run. A friend of mine smokes more often than I do, and he tells me it's impossible to study maths when you're high (although memorising kanji through stories isn't exactly the same kind of studying). He's going to UCL with 2 other smokers so it doesn't seem to have affected their academic performance. I'm convinced the stereotype is more down to socioeconomic depravity than anything else, being farmiliar with the lower-middle class and how shitty a hand some kids are dealt for a shot at life.

The THC vs. CBD article is interesting. Everything I've read so far has been heavily anecdotal.

Some interesting alcohol stuff:

http://www.huliq.com/10177/alcohol-consumption-strengthens-sub-conscious-memory-mental-conditioning

Quote:What is new, however, is that Dr. Morikawa and his team is that the conditioning aspects extend far beyond the direct consumption of alcohol. Whatever people typically do when they drink, the social setting, food, music, etc. - all of this becomes imprinted deeply in the subconscious memory of the brain. In other words, alcohol addiction fuels more than itself, but whatever behaviors come along with it.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/04/13/subconscious-memory-and-the-lure-of-alcohol/25271.html

Quote:Alcohol, in this model, is the enabler. It hijacks the dopaminergic system, and it tells our brain that what we’re doing at that moment is rewarding (and thus worth repeating).

I suppose that gives me an excuse to get smashed occasionally when I'm doing anki reps. Maybe that's why Christopher Hitchens' literary repertoire was so damn huge.

Learning kanji while high - uisukii - 2013-03-14

chamcham Wrote:Well, people who smoke pot often forget to attend school anymore.
That's proof enough for me...

Wasn't a smoker yet I still dropped out of high school... twice. A group of stoners I went to school with, however, graduated. All of them. lol.

Learning kanji while high - nadiatims - 2013-03-14

Cannabis does seem to be highly addictive and can be destructive to the lives of some people, as is alcohol, tobacco, and a plethora of other things. Everyone has their poison.

Casual use is probably relatively harmless for most people. As for language learning, I can't see it having much effect. Language learning seems primarily to be about getting a lot of things into your deep experiential memory. Getting high I imagine would only affect your working memory while you're high hence the inability to do math.
I think deliberately getting high every time you study though could be a really bad idea though because it might start becoming habitual and possibly become an addiction and at that point will probably start messing with your life and learning ability and memory.

that said, I have never gotten high, so I have no idea what I'm talking about...

I have known people in the past though whose lives were messed up and who also happened to smoke a lot of pot. Correlation? Causation? I don't know.