+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: how to study the grammar dictionaries (/thread-10512.html)
how to study the grammar dictionaries - errtu - 2013-02-10
from the 日本語文法辞典 books (they are three I think):
do you guys recommend reading the whole books and adding sentences for each grammar point?
or just srs the sentences?
or something else?
Because they are like 400 pages long, each. So I wanna know beforehand what you guys advice.
cheers
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Zgarbas - 2013-02-10
I SRS the sentences. But I also read the dictionaries from time to time; often I intuitively understand the sentence whilst missing the grammar point (as in, I'll see it used and start recognizing it, but not really more than that).
Once you get to a point where the grammar is much harder than what you're used to you'll find yourself looking them up anyway =).
So, I'd go with SRSing the sentences and reading it occasionally while you're at it.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Inny Jan - 2013-02-10
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=168014#pid168014
Also, these days I consider adding "Formation" info to my Anki cards - I'm not set on where and how yet though.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - errtu - 2013-02-11
Inny Jan Wrote:http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=168014#pid168014and you meant what by that comment?
Also, these days I consider adding "Formation" info to my Anki cards - I'm not set on where and how yet though.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Inny Jan - 2013-02-11
The linked in post describes format of Q&A that I think can be used for creating cards with grammar topics (yes, I suggest that you SRS those).
Inny Jan Wrote:In my opinion the most efficient way to study grammar is to have the second format where the Japanese sentence contains cloze deletion (you also need a hint as for what the sentence is about). Something like:In addition to that, assuming that you have Do{BIA}JG, I indicated that you could SRS formation of patters as depicted under the Formation section for each of the dictionaries entries. Unlike the first suggestion though, I don't have a preferred way of formatting the cards.
Q:
I wish I had asked my teacher.
先生に[...]。
A:
先生に聞けばよかった。
せんせい・に・き・けばよかった。
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Zgarbas - 2013-02-11
That also sounds pretty good!
I'd add something like the "～ば" form in the question though as once you learn more grammar you know various ways of expressing a sentence.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Inny Jan - 2013-02-11
I wouldn't do exactly that. The aim is to actively recall a given pattern and putting "～ば" in question would be to much of give away in my opinion. A solution I use this days is to put something that eliminates alternatives but doesn't show the pattern in question, for example:
Q:
While I was eating my meal, Mr. Yamada was watching TV. [without ながら]
私がご飯を[...]山田さんはテレビを見ていました。
A:
私がご飯を食べている間山田さんはテレビを見ていました。
This probably isn't the best example though, because you can't use 食べながら with two different subjects, so the answer must be 食べている間.
But this would probably work better:
Q:
While I was eating my meal, I was watching TV. [without ながら]
私はご飯を[...]テレビを見ていました。
A:
私はご飯を食べている間テレビを見ていました。
I think (I don't have the dictionary with me atm), in this example, both 食べている間 and 食べながら are acceptable, so you do need a hint to disambiguate.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Zgarbas - 2013-02-11
Yes but what do you do when you don't know ながら yet?
(basically I'm suggesting mentioning the form because you need to know how to use it to complete the sentence anyway, you know that you don't know it well if you can't get why it's used in the situation, and you don't waste time retconning previous sentences to include [without the newest form I've learned which works])
Up to the individual of course.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - Stansfield123 - 2013-02-11
You have to read the explanations, more than once in fact. SRS won't help you there.
As for closed deletion, I tried clozed deleted grammar sentences, didn't find them helpful. Now I just SRS the examples, without the clozed deletion. I of course read the full explanations, several times, and know exactly what's going on in each sentence. I also try to recognize similar grammar as I encounter it.
But I never try to remember syntax, or try to reproduce it from memory, because:
1. It's hard.
2. It won't make you speak Japanese. Japanese sentence structure is not the sum of those rules. The rules are just meant to help understand the language, not to make you speak it. All you need them for is to recognize what's going on, when you see them applied.
Note that that's very different from situations in which clozed deletion does help: learning vocab. Words are in fact the building blocks of a language, and memorizing them is useful and necessary.
how to study the grammar dictionaries - errtu - 2013-02-12
Thank you guys for your input. I'm still not sure what I'll do after ko2001 but your replies helped a lot. I guess I'll just try both suggestions and see which one suits me better. Just want a strong grammar foundation before/while doing core2k &6k