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+--- Thread: Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. (/thread-10428.html)
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - blankkor - 2013-01-29
yudantaiteki Wrote:Yes, I am claiming beginners cannot always tell the difference between close primitives without help. If they can do that 100% accurately they don't need Heisig or this site.I honestly can't tell if this is honestly what you think or if you're using an elaborate strawman to(again) attempt to deceive the people who read this thread. To discover these mistakes takes simple logic and nothing more, and the fact you said those who can deduce those errors don't need 'Heisig or this site' is completely irrelevant. I don't know why you put Heisig there, but this site provides an SRS algorithm, a means to track your progress throughout Heisig's books and most importantly a variety of stories for you to choose from(I personally rely on this most, as I tend to either modify existing stories or use them as-is, I rarely write my own). All three of these aspects are completely irrelevant to one's ability to deduce simple mistakes which you portray as life-and-death complex puzzles.(Either that, or you're making a broad assumption that all those who begin RtK are complete morons who lack basic deduction skills)
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - yudantaiteki - 2013-01-29
You're right, my purpose is not to make the site better, it's to deceive people. That's the whole purpose of my 2800+ posts.
Never mind, I should have obeyed my initial impulse and just stopped posting on this thread -- I've just gotten over the flu and I don't need to give myself headaches again.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-01-29
blankkor, you're not making any sense. What value can there possibly be in keeping stories made with -wrong- components? Even if every student realizes that a story wrongly places a 'Saint Bernard' where it should be a 'Chihuahua' (or whatever easily mistaken component with whatever name) ... even if -no- beginner would accidentally take that story with wrong components, still, -every- beginner that is reading that story has to find the mistake and realize that that story is not actually useable.
At -best- it's just a waste of people's time, at worst, some few of those beginners do not live up to your expectation of perfect alertness, critical examination and logical skills and... actually use the story... only to figure out at some future time that they're now drawing it wrongly and go back to unlearn the story and replace it with one that gives them the correct components.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - blankkor - 2013-01-29
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:blankkor, you're not making any sense. What value can there possibly be in keeping stories made with -wrong- components? Even if every student realizes that a story wrongly places a 'Saint Bernard' where it should be a 'Chihuahua' (or whatever easily mistaken component with whatever name) ... even if -no- beginner would accidentally take that story with wrong components, still, -every- beginner that is reading that story has to find the mistake and realize that that story is not actually useable.Why do you keep pressing non-existent points in my argument? The original story that spurred this argument has no 'wrong' components, a total of two primitives one of which uses its vanilla definition thus making it extremely simple to deduce that 'double mysterious' is the primitive he dubbed with the racist term. Furthermore, I don't recall a single incident where 大 was confused with 犬(In case there is one, however, bringing it here would be futile as it's completely off topic), so again, there's absolutely no point in using this 'argument' against me as it makes absolutely no sense in the context of this discussion. yudantaiteki's original argument was that custom primitives with no precedent have the potential to throw beginners off track, which I rebutted in my earlier post. yudantaiteki dubbed the racist story as one that may confuse beginners, while it's not at all the case.
At -best- it's just a waste of people's time, at worst, some few of those beginners do not live up to your expectation of perfect alertness, critical examination and logical skills and... actually use the story... only to figure out at some future time that they're now drawing it wrongly and go back to unlearn the story and replace it with one that gives them the correct components.
EDIT:
I see you edited your post, so I'll reply to that portion
yudantaiteki Wrote:You're right, my purpose is not to make the site better, it's to deceive people. That's the whole purpose of my 2800+ posts.What I meant by that is the fact you keep throwing the same repeated arguments even after they've been disproven by slightly altering them each time.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - yudantaiteki - 2013-01-29
blankkor Wrote:\yudantaiteki's original argument was that custom primitives with no precedent have the potential to throw beginners off track, which I rebutted in my earlier post. yudantaiteki dubbed the racist story as one that may confuse beginners, while it's not at all the case.I never said either of those things, but why should I bother making further responses to someone who can't even read my posts correctly.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-01-29
I don't know an example with that component mistake in particular, but the little aside that yudantaiteki made - that you were attacking beyond all reason - was saying that removing stories with that -kind of mistake- is arguably more important than removing stories for being offensive.
Nobody has suggested removing stories for using custom component names, that was just your misinterpretation of what yudantaiteki said. Your misinterpreting it that way does not make it what he said.
(also... I don't 'keep' doing anything. That's the first post I've ever addressed you in. This is the second and last. I don't feed trolls. Good day to you sir.)
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - blankkor - 2013-01-29
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:I don't know an example with that component mistake in particular, but the little aside that yudantaiteki made - that you were attacking beyond all reason - was saying that removing stories with that -kind of mistake- is arguably more important than removing stories for being offensive.yudantaiteki said it in context of the ongoing discussion regarding the racist Magnet story, therefore directly implying that the story is invalid and should be removed for that reason alone. Furthermore, if you're going to call me out for misinterpreting something, the least you could do is explain how and why instead of just putting it out there and expecting me to reason it out on my own.
Nobody has suggested removing stories for using custom component names, that was just your misinterpretation of what yudantaiteki said. Your misinterpreting it that way does not make it what he said.
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:(also... I don't 'keep' doing anything. That's the first post I've ever addressed you in. This is the second and last. I don't feed trolls. Good day to you sir.)By "You" I meant those who involved in the current discussion, i.e, yourself and yudantaiteki. You took my post 'as-is' instead of taking it in context like you should have done, and ended up attacking a false argument. Lastly, I am not a troll and it truly is a shame that you can't go on a civil discussion without resorting to personal attacks.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - IceCream - 2013-01-29
SomeCallMeChris Wrote:People aren't up in arms about defamation in the U.S. because the bar is very high. To be guilty of criminal defamation, you have to be shown to have knowingly asserted falsehoods as fact, for the purpose of damaging the defamed person, and you have to have succeeded in damaging them - ie, causing them some real loss of opportunity to earn money or attain a position. Inserting phrases like 'I think', or 'I heard', or 'some people say' is enough that you can't be sued over it because you stated it as opinion or hearsay, not as fact. (not a lawyer and it's been years since I closely looked at a real defamation case, so I may be a little off on where the line is, but close enough to answer why people aren't upset about this particular infringement of freedom of speech.)Wow, ok. Yeah, that is set quite high. I'm pretty sure that someone could go about systematically destroying your reputation with "i heard" or "i think" statements just as easily as they could with straight ones. I guess it's the proving the intent that is difficult though.
Anyway, i might disagree with someone on where the line should be drawn, and i think that's ok, but those claiming that there isn't any line where one person's freedom impacts too much on another person's, and that any attempt to draw such a line can lead only to totalitarianism are just plain wrong, i think. I doubt they would be in favour of freedom to defame, for one thing. Or non violent stalking, for another.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - yudantaiteki - 2013-01-29
If I remember my high school journalism classes, putting "I heard" would not be enough, but the bar for defamation is pretty high. You have to show that a statement was false, caused harm, and that the person who printed/said it did not make a reasonable effort to determine truth/falsity and intended to cause harm with the statement.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - Hashiriya - 2013-01-29
You guys need to just stop fighting and study Japanese. The only people these arguments are helping are the people studying English. >< If you have a complaint about the website, you should just send an e-mail to the owner and let him decide what to do with it.
Thinking about no longer using RTK by Heisig. - sholum - 2013-01-29
Hashiriya Wrote:You guys need to just stop fighting and study Japanese. The only people these arguments are helping are the people studying English. >< If you have a complaint about the website, you should just send an e-mail to the owner and let him decide what to do with it.Seconded. Real arguments can be fun in small doses, but not these pages full of trolls and poor saps that can't see a troll or blinded fool (which may be the case for some of them) when it gives the same worthless argument over and over though.