+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Off topic (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-13.html)
+--- Thread: International Shorthand? (/thread-10174.html)
International Shorthand? - Fadeway - 2012-11-14
I'm looking for a shorthand system that works independently on the language it's used for.
I've set out to learn shorthand - I find it cool, plus it's a useful skill to have. I'll be practicing while watching anime, with a focus on the "writing", not the "watching" bit.
I've been reading up and trying to choose a system, but a >very< short glimpse at the Gregg short forms alerted me to a potential problem: It's language-specific. There are short forms for long combinations common only to English, as well as short forms for entire words. I know four languages and intend to learn more, so this is a problem. Initially, I imagined the short forms as something akin to kana - you have the streamlined alphabet (preferably based on sounds, not spelling), and then you have symbols for syllables that you can use to further simplify.
I'm not saying that learning Gregg by skipping the language-specific stuff would result in a slow system that's no better than normal writing. I have no clue, it's why I'm asking. Are there any stenographers among us who have experience with this? Will I be able to use Pitman/Gregg for languages they aren't designed for? Is there a system that's meant to be language-independent? I know that the last question a long shot, since good streamlining depends on use frequency which is language-specific, but I want to know my options. Should I just learn an English-based system and improvise with it if I get into a situation where another language is required, or is there a better option?
International Shorthand? - bloodflow - 2013-01-13
Fadeway Wrote:I'm looking for a shorthand system that works independently on the language it's used for.I doubt you'll find one.
Fadeway Wrote:I've set out to learn shorthand - I find it cool, plus it's a useful skill to have. I'll be practicing while watching anime, with a focus on the "writing", not the "watching" bit.I learnt it because I found it interesting, but I'd hardly call it usefull. You have to train A LOT to get to the point where it's actually useful. For a long time you'll have to think about which strokes you need to use, and it takes a while for that to become automatic. And reading it is much slower than normal writing.
Fadeway Wrote:I've been reading up and trying to choose a system, but a >very< short glimpse at the Gregg short forms alerted me to a potential problem: It's language-specific. There are short forms for long combinations common only to English, as well as short forms for entire words.That's the whole point. Shorthand systems try to accomplish two things: (1) Reduce the number of strokes required to represent a given sound; and (2) Reduce the number of strokes you need to write common suffixes, prefixes, words and phrases.
You can write everything with (1), but to be efficient you'll make extensive use of (2) using strokes specifically thought for the purpose. I don't know about other systems, but in the one I learnt it is obvious much attention was given to the direction and length of the stroke so that you don't have problems with your writing overlapping previous lines. Unlike traditional cursive systems, after one "letter" the pen does not return to the baseline and so, if you have two or three consecutive upward strokes you'd hit the line above.
It's not a simple exercise to adapt a system to another language.
You'll always need shortcuts for the common words,phrases,suffixes and prefixes, and these will be different for each language. I probably could adapt parts of the Martiniano system to use with french or spanish, but I don't think it'd work with english or even japanese.
In the end, the adapted system will probably be so different for each language that it'll be like learning a different one.
Fadeway Wrote:Will I be able to use Pitman/Gregg for languages they aren't designed for? Is there a system that's meant to be language-independent? I know that the last question a long shot, since good streamlining depends on use frequency which is language-specific, but I want to know my options. Should I just learn an English-based system and improvise with it if I get into a situation where another language is required, or is there a better option?1. Doubt it
2. Never heard of one
3. Learn what you need for your language. If you need to write in another language for a short stretch you just use regular writing. If you need to write often, then perhaps you could learn a new system specific for that particular language.
Having said all that, it'd probably be fairly simple to create a shorthand for Japanese. There aren't that many syllables, and I guess you could try to simply katakana and hiragana to the point where it's faster and can you can write without lifting the pen in-between words.