nikun Wrote:- of course at my point (672 cards in 2k/6k deck) I'm not revising all RTK kanjis, but just a part, so: at what point of 2k/6k deck I can say 'I can stop revising RTK because I'm already revising the kanjis in 2k/6k core'?

nikun Wrote:- I was thinking on already stopping with RTK and continue with 2k/6k deck + starting with Tae Kim. Worst idea ever?

nikun Wrote:- What do you think on 2k/6k deck? I mean, % are quite low, but does it make sense to stop adding new cards to consolidate the 672 cards aleady 'studied'? I'm not that sure...

EratiK Wrote:- when did you finish RTK1? Half an hour a day seems too much, an hour or two a week should be enough... Maybe just make RTK your low priority and do an hourly review once a week on Sunday, and let the due cards build up, it doesn't matter, you'll do them (if you need to) when you'll have more time.

Clasu Wrote:Studying vocabulary doesn't really help you remember how to write those kanji either.

Clasu Wrote:Your percentages with both RTK mature and Core 2k/6k are awfully low

Clasu Wrote:What kind of cards are you studying Core 2k/6k with ?

Clasu Wrote:And why are you failing those cards (unable to remember the reading/meaning of word/sentence) ?

nikun Wrote:

EratiK Wrote:- when did you finish RTK1? Half an hour a day seems too much, an hour or two a week should be enough... Maybe just make RTK your low priority and do an hourly review once a week on Sunday, and let the due cards build up, it doesn't matter, you'll do them (if you need to) when you'll have more time.

Thanks EratiK! I added the last card 16 days ago. I like your idea on reviewing once or twice a week, but if I let the 'due cards' build themselves up, what am I supposed to review/study in the meantime. I know I won't be able to study 300-400 at once.

rich_f Wrote:Anki on my smartphone is crucial, because I can always review when I have a few minutes. You don't need the fanciest phone, you just need one that will run Anki. (If you can't afford the $20-something for Anki on the iPhone, AnkiDroid is free.)

You could wake up 20-30 minutes early and knock out some reviews while you're not mentally fatigued. (I'm better at reviewing in the morning.) If you commute by bus or train, there's another place to fit some in. Whenever you have 5 minutes free, like waiting on line in a bank, you can review.

rich_f Wrote:If I'm having trouble with remembering a word, I add 3-5 extra example sentences as separate cards to the deck. I get them from the yahoo.co.jp dictionary, or the one at use alc.co.jp, and I make sure there aren't any other words I don't know in them. Just seeing 排水 (はいすい) (drainage) once didn't work for me, so I added 5 sentences for it. The more I saw it, the better it stuck in my memory. My brain said, "Oh, this must be important. I'll remember it then."

rich_f Wrote:If you aren't understanding the content/structure of the sentences you're studying, then you need to start studying grammar.

rich_f Wrote:A good textbook *might* help. If you want an Italian translation, I would recommend Minna no Nihongo, because you can buy an Italian translation of the grammar info. It's not cheap, but it's an excellent textbook.

Finally, find something easy to read. Manga or whatever. It just needs to be in *easy* Japanese. When you see the stuff you're studying show up in the books you're reading, it makes a big difference in how well you remember it.

EratiK Wrote:

nikun Wrote:

EratiK Wrote:- when did you finish RTK1? Half an hour a day seems too much, an hour or two a week should be enough... Maybe just make RTK your low priority and do an hourly review once a week on Sunday, and let the due cards build up, it doesn't matter, you'll do them (if you need to) when you'll have more time.

Thanks EratiK! I added the last card 16 days ago. I like your idea on reviewing once or twice a week, but if I let the 'due cards' build themselves up, what am I supposed to review/study in the meantime. I know I won't be able to study 300-400 at once.

Ah, okay. Then, try to continue with the daily reviews for maybe again two weeks, then switch to every two days or three days, and later you'll review every week. Of course 300-400 is too much at once, but it doesn't matter: so you have a lots of RTK due cards; so what? I'd rather you do real Japanese if that's what you want to do, because let's face it, nobody has time for everything. Like Clasu said, you just shouldn't stop completely.

nikun Wrote:

Clasu Wrote:What kind of cards are you studying Core 2k/6k with ?

Maybe I got the question wrong, but I'm studying as the deck is set, following the 'Optimized-vox-index' field in the deck settings.

Clasu Wrote:And why are you failing those cards (unable to remember the reading/meaning of word/sentence) ?

Cards in core 2k/6k are set in this way:
Q:
-EN word + synonims
-JP sentence with blank space
-EN sentence translated
-Image
A:
-kanji+furigana
-JP sentence (complete)
-audio word+sentence

When reviewing:
- I never chose 'easy'
- I chose 'good' only if I got both kanji + reading right
- chose 'hard' if I failed to remember the kanji
- chose 'repeat' if I fail the reading (even if I confuse す with ず or る with ろ)

* I realized I didn't answer your question, but when I fail cards is definitely because I don't remember the reading. I have to say that when in one day I have to study 10 or more words with just the kanji 下, I think it's normal they give me some problem.

Clasu Wrote:It seems you're basically doing 'production'-type cards (going from meaning to reading/kanji), which might be the exact reason why your correct % is so low. Depending on your goals you might want to change the layout.

For example, my goal is to learn how to READ japanese, so I'm doing almost exclusively 'recognition' type cards. On my cards I have on question side the word or sentence (with the studied word highlighted) in kanji and nothing else. Everything else (furigana, meaning, additional explanations etc.) are on the answer side. I fail the card if I can't read and understand the sentence.

Clasu Wrote:Granted, I can't write 90% of those words, even though I can read them and write the individual kanji from keywords, but for now I'm fine with that.

nikun Wrote:

Clasu Wrote:Granted, I can't write 90% of those words, even though I can read them and write the individual kanji from keywords, but for now I'm fine with that.

Sorry, but what you exactly mean with this? With 'reading' you mean the actual JP reading or just the understading in english?

undead_saif Wrote:

nikun Wrote:

Clasu Wrote:Granted, I can't write 90% of those words, even though I can read them and write the individual kanji from keywords, but for now I'm fine with that.

Sorry, but what you exactly mean with this? With 'reading' you mean the actual JP reading or just the understading in english?

He means that he can see a word (Kanji compound), understand it and know its reading (which is called recognition, Japanese->English, because he recognized the vocabulary), but if he were to say or write a vocabulary word, he can't use the correct Kanji or reading for the English word in his mind (which is called Production, English->Japanese, producing a word in Japanese), yet he knows the individual Kanji and can write them, but can't match the Kanji with their words, because he does recognition cards, contrary to you (you do production cards).

The norm here is to do recognition cards, and later when one wants to develop production abilities, he/she uses production cards.

Hyperborea Wrote:Production versus recognition is not an either or choice. They both are useful and you can do both in whichever order works better for you.

The production deck is harder and will take longer. It also works better if you are sitting down with paper and pencil to write out the vocab. The recognition deck can be done faster and done anywhere you have a smartphone.

In the end you probably want to do both. I've done Core2k in production mode first and will soon turn it around and go at it in recognition mode. If you are having trouble with production mode then switch the decks up to recognition mode. When you are done and have taken some time to work on other things then go back again and do production mode.

undead_saif Wrote:Investing some time in reading about various methods is important.
Anytime you feel confused or something doesn't work don't hesitate to ask

rich_f Wrote:If your Nokia N70 can access the web, then you can review on the Anki website in simple keitai mode.

pen0id Wrote:

rich_f Wrote:If your Nokia N70 can access the web, then you can review on the Anki website in simple keitai mode.

OP can install opera mini so doesn't have to use ankiweb simple mode but...

Unless his phone had asian firmware, adding japanese support to nokias are a P.i.t.a.

And I'm not sure how Kanji renders on a 176x208 screen.

He may be better off buying a cheap tablet which could run anki natively.

ryuudou Wrote:

pen0id Wrote:

rich_f Wrote:If your Nokia N70 can access the web, then you can review on the Anki website in simple keitai mode.

OP can install opera mini so doesn't have to use ankiweb simple mode but...

Unless his phone had asian firmware, adding japanese support to nokias are a P.i.t.a.

And I'm not sure how Kanji renders on a 176x208 screen.

He may be better off buying a cheap tablet which could run anki natively.

Mhm. Even without a cell tower connection with a cheap tablet he can always sync it at home before he leaves, and once when he returns. That way anything he does will be synced with the web and his desktop client. Then again if he's going to spend money for the purpose of mobile reviews then can always just upgrade his cell phone when he feels it's appropriate.

Hyperborea Wrote:

nikun Wrote:

Hyperborea Wrote:Production versus recognition is not an either or choice. They both are useful and you can do both in whichever order works better for you.

No doubts that doing the same deck in both ways would be better, but I have to be honest: the thought of going through a deck that big twice, scares me a bit. But one step at a time, everything is doable!

Then don't do both. Really the only rule is to do whatever gets you towards your goal and to keep at it. I only suggested both because you said that you wanted to reach full fluency with being able to write. That's where I'm heading and I found that the recognition deck wasn't doing it.

I did about 1K of Core2k before switching to production and restarting. It's harder but I think that doing it is definitely making it easier to write the words. I'll go on to the recognition deck because it will be easy enough at that point and I can use it as a time filler. I'm hoping that it will increase my recognition speed.

That being said, is taking the extra time to do the production deck the best use of my time? I don't know. Maybe it would be better to go more quickly through the recognition deck only and spend the extra time on other activities (going further in the Core6k deck, reading, writing on lang-8, etc.). Maybe that would actually be better for my skills. I don't know and I'm not sure that any of us _really_ know. All we can do is speculate.

Oh and once you get through Core2k and TaeKim's grammar get yourself some reading material. I like the Yomu Yomu Bunko graded reader series and from this board I got the awesome recommendation of Yotsubato! It's a simple enough, funny, manga series with words that you will really use in real life with a bit of insight into everyday Japanese life for those not familiar with it.

nikun Wrote:

Hyperborea Wrote:No doubts that doing the same deck in both ways would be better, but I have to be honest: the thought of going through a deck that big twice, scares me a bit. But one step at a time, everything is doable!

Then don't do both. Really the only rule is to do whatever gets you towards your goal and to keep at it. I only suggested both because you said that you wanted to reach full fluency with being able to write. That's where I'm heading and I found that the recognition deck wasn't doing it.

I did about 1K of Core2k before switching to production and restarting. It's harder but I think that doing it is definitely making it easier to write the words. I'll go on to the recognition deck because it will be easy enough at that point and I can use it as a time filler. I'm hoping that it will increase my recognition speed.

That being said, is taking the extra time to do the production deck the best use of my time? I don't know. Maybe it would be better to go more quickly through the recognition deck only and spend the extra time on other activities (going further in the Core6k deck, reading, writing on lang-8, etc.). Maybe that would actually be better for my skills. I don't know and I'm not sure that any of us _really_ know. All we can do is speculate.

Oh and once you get through Core2k and TaeKim's grammar get yourself some reading material. I like the Yomu Yomu Bunko graded reader series and from this board I got the awesome recommendation of Yotsubato! It's a simple enough, funny, manga series with words that you will really use in real life with a bit of insight into everyday Japanese life for those not familiar with it.

Clasu Wrote:'Expression' field on that deck should have the sentence in kanji, so put that (and nothing else, in my opinion) on the question side.

maxthornbow Wrote:If you're using Anki 2, you can use {{kanji:Field}} to hide the furigana of Field.