(2016-02-11, 2:56 pm)Dudeist Wrote:

(2016-02-11, 12:12 am)Wurstmann Wrote: Or come to the Mainland where KMarkP's first three points are valid, too. xD

If it were not so horribly polluted Mainland China would be high on that list. I know the south isn't as bad as the north but then you get the heat and Cantonese with twice as many tones.

I think I'll pass. If I were to go the Chinese direction, I'd do Taiwan.

As for Japanese being useless overseas. I am pushing 50. I've met one half Japanese girl, perhaps had 10 minutes of conversation with her. Based on one story she told me I'd guess she knows some Japanese but I don't know how much. I did Karate from a white dude who lived in Japan and had a wife who didn't seem comfortable in English but we never really socialized either.
That is about it. I would have gotten much more use out of Chinese or even Korean.

In town I hear there is a Japanese girl who is married to some white guy. Have never met her though. There are some exchange students but it would be a bit pedobearish to talk to them considering my age but even on that front, much more Chinese.

Can't swing a dead cat on St Catherines street in Montreal without hitting a Chinese speaking person.

I suppose if I knew Japanese, maybe via the consulate in Ottawa or Montreal I could find people to talk to but Chinese would be so much easier.

Never mind that Chinese movies are so much better at least to me [like Hollywood and Bollywood they range from great to crap] and they come on once a week on Canadian TV and I can even watch them in an actual movie theatre an hour away [ditto Bollywood].

My ongoing fear with Japanese is that if I don't go over there, it will represent a huge pointless time suck. Likewise if I go there for say a year and it doesn't appeal to me, I'd be hard pressed to keep it up when I got back home. It would only pay off if I spent say 3 to 5 years there.
Sadly I've looked into tones and my confidence in tackling them without an actual instructor to beat corrections into me is very low. From what I understand it is hard to find an instructor who is good in teaching tones and the options are someone near local which is brutal expensive or someone online and I don't like the idea of skyping too much.

I still think of switching at times. I got about 250 Kanji left on the RTK, once I start on Genki I figure I'm locked in and might as well stick with what I started.

Also very recent events have really dented any motivation I have for doing anything in terms of self improvement. That however is another story.

Supposing you don't move, but would still like to make use of the language skills...
Just because you don't know any Japanese people, does it mean you will never have a chance to use the language?
Similarly, just because there are more Chinese people in your area, does it mean you will actually speak to them?

Just wondering.
Not saying this is your goal, but tons of people study Japanese, not even to talk to real people or visit Japan, but solely to read manga, play games, or watch anime without subtitles. It is possible to study languages without much -real world- application, while still being an enjoyable endeavor.

(2016-02-12, 2:15 pm)angelneko Wrote: Just wondering.
Not saying this is your goal, but tons of people study Japanese, not even to talk to real people or visit Japan, but solely to read manga, play games, or watch anime without subtitles. It is possible to study languages without much -real world- application, while still being an enjoyable endeavor.

When picking a language it came down to Hindi, Chinese and Japanese. Japanese won out mainly because it seemed easier to do up front without the need for a tutor.

I am one of those oddball rarities who has no interest in manga, games or anime. The movies I've seen are meh IMHO, at least they don't compare to films in the other 2 languages even with their weaknesses.

The only reason Japanese made the list was that it was difficult, it was testable, and Japan is very different but still liveable.

I'm sticking with it for now. However the problem with learning a language without real world applications is that when you get pretty proficient, you kinda need something to keep your level up. I don't want to be one of those guys who put in that much effort only to let the skill set rot. Sort of like those people who get a black belt and quit [I knew a guy like that], granted there is something to the process, but it seems a shame.

Still sticking with the Japanese for now. Who knows maybe the TV shows will appeal more than the movies, I'll get lucky and find a Japanese "Yes Minister" or "The Good Life" or "The Big Bang Theory" or maybe there is a Japanese version of Horatio Hornblower or Richard Sharpe in the world of books. That is a long time into the future though, still on the RTK stage. So bloody close to finishing.

Well, if you have netflix in japan you can watch a lot of things dubbed into japanese (including big bang theory). Most of the japanese tv that i've seen tends to not be that great, although there are a few gems here and there. Some of the comedy shows can be amusing, depending on your sense of humor. There are also novels that you can read if manga isn't your thing, as well as foreign novels translated into japanese. The novels just might take a bit more language ability to be able to read well than manga.

Out of curiosity, what is your approximate goal at this point for where you want to get with the language. Is it perfect fluency, to the point that you want to sound like any average adult (maybe minus some of the more intricate manners)? Or are you looking more for basic enough communication to the point where you can talk with people when you need to, fill out the required forms without heavy assistance, etc.? I believe you mentioned at some point wanting to live there, but I am not as sure about how high you wanted to take the language right now.

(2016-02-13, 8:53 pm)mc962 Wrote: Out of curiosity, what is your approximate goal at this point for where you want to get with the language. Is it perfect fluency, to the point that you want to sound like any average adult (maybe minus some of the more intricate manners)? Or are you looking more for basic enough communication to the point where you can talk with people when you need to, fill out the required forms without heavy assistance, etc.? I believe you mentioned at some point wanting to live there, but I am not as sure about how high you wanted to take the language right now.

JLPT N1 or bust. As long as I am here in Upper Canada, might as well focus on consumption than production.

As for conversation, I don't really have any set goals at this point, hell I am only at the RTK level. I figure if I can understand, read and write the Kanji [I write out the RTK reviews] and with the required vocab I'll be much of the way there in terms of writing and having conversations. Much better off than someone who makes it to Japan with nothing. If I go. I figure when I get further along the learning process I might look into having some sort of conversation thing on the go but I am not a huge fan of skyping, I don't even like talking on the phone much. I'll play it by ear. There seems to be one on one Japanese tutors available in Montreal.

If I do get to Japan however I'd like to be able to carry on real meaningful conversations. Being in the land of immigrants and a friendly sort I must admit it is difficult to talk to people whose English isn't all that good. The conversations tend to be simple because I don't want to lose the person I am talking to. I don't want to be "That Guy". Maybe I am wrong but I figure if you can understand and you know the grammar and vocab, fine tuning the speaking shouldn't be that bad. I do promise however if I get there I won't start claiming fluency in 3 months