2016-01-12, 6:26 am
Hey guys,
Planning to chow down on some serious N2 prep for the summer sitting, and this thread has already been a treasure trove. I do have a quick query I was hoping one of you might be able to answer, however.
I've been learning in a slightly haphazard way for around 5 years, which involved about a year of formal schooling and then long periods of occasionally flicking through a comic book. As a result, my vocab is a little all over the place - I know a fair amount of specialised language, and my kanji reading/guesswork is fair to good, but I feel there are a lot of important basic words that I still don't have down pat. Now I've downloaded the Core 6000 on Anki, on the basis that it'll cover most of what I need for N2. But when I started to do drills, the vocab that came up first was stuff like 'depreciation of the yen', and 'presidential inauguration', which conflicts with my understanding that the Core 6000 was going to be basically the most commonly used 6000 words in Japanese.
So my question is this: does the Core 6000 include the vocab covered in the Core 1000/2000, or do I need to go back and do those specifically if I want to catch all my vocab holes? I was hoping to have just one set of flashcards for vocab, and I don't mind if it starts in a weird, business-centric place, as long as it eventually includes everything I need to know.
Planning to chow down on some serious N2 prep for the summer sitting, and this thread has already been a treasure trove. I do have a quick query I was hoping one of you might be able to answer, however.
I've been learning in a slightly haphazard way for around 5 years, which involved about a year of formal schooling and then long periods of occasionally flicking through a comic book. As a result, my vocab is a little all over the place - I know a fair amount of specialised language, and my kanji reading/guesswork is fair to good, but I feel there are a lot of important basic words that I still don't have down pat. Now I've downloaded the Core 6000 on Anki, on the basis that it'll cover most of what I need for N2. But when I started to do drills, the vocab that came up first was stuff like 'depreciation of the yen', and 'presidential inauguration', which conflicts with my understanding that the Core 6000 was going to be basically the most commonly used 6000 words in Japanese.
So my question is this: does the Core 6000 include the vocab covered in the Core 1000/2000, or do I need to go back and do those specifically if I want to catch all my vocab holes? I was hoping to have just one set of flashcards for vocab, and I don't mind if it starts in a weird, business-centric place, as long as it eventually includes everything I need to know.
2016-01-12, 8:25 am
It doesn't include Core 2000 vocab, and the whole list was based off the most common words in newspapers, if I remember correctly, so it's going to be news-centric, but it did help me on N2 (though I also went through the Tanos JLPT decks for N2 and below to cover any gaps), and watching the news will be much easier after Core 6k.
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2016-01-12, 8:35 am
Core2k is the first 2000 words of Core6k, but the rest of your post is correct.
Edited: 2016-01-12, 8:36 am
2016-01-15, 1:00 am
2016-01-20, 8:57 pm
Only a few more days of uncertainty left as the results of December test can be checked online from the 26th. I have been a bit lazy in adding new cards after the test, waiting for the results... if no pass, retake the N2 in July, if pass, aim for N1 in December.
2016-01-20, 9:31 pm
Oh wow, results are already coming out? Time flew. I'm pretty much decided at this point on not taking N1 this year.
As for my goals this year: I'm instead going to try working on my business Japanese as well as my technical writing skills, and also listening and speaking skills. I was able to hold a 4 hour voice conversation entirely in Japanese a few days ago with this person I met randomly on HelloTalk, which was pretty nice because I haven't had the chance to have a long conversation in Japanese for a long time. I'm considering maybe looking into a tutor from some place like italki to get me feeling more comfortable with using keigo and such. Definitely need practice before the summer so I don't accidentally let 俺 slip into another interview. >.>
For technical writing skills, I'm probably going to do technical write ups about things related to my field in Japanese and see about having someone look it over.
Hopefully everyone did well on their exams and is able to accomplish their learning goals in 2016!
As for my goals this year: I'm instead going to try working on my business Japanese as well as my technical writing skills, and also listening and speaking skills. I was able to hold a 4 hour voice conversation entirely in Japanese a few days ago with this person I met randomly on HelloTalk, which was pretty nice because I haven't had the chance to have a long conversation in Japanese for a long time. I'm considering maybe looking into a tutor from some place like italki to get me feeling more comfortable with using keigo and such. Definitely need practice before the summer so I don't accidentally let 俺 slip into another interview. >.>
For technical writing skills, I'm probably going to do technical write ups about things related to my field in Japanese and see about having someone look it over.
Hopefully everyone did well on their exams and is able to accomplish their learning goals in 2016!
2016-01-23, 3:23 pm
I notice from mock tests that in the N1 grammar section there's usually a question or two on keigo. Does anybody have a good summary or reference on what keigo they expect you to know or are testing for at this level?
2016-01-25, 10:07 am
You should know how to use kenjogo, sonkeigo, and teineigo in the appropriate settings, and you should know your special verbs and their special forms. (存じる、召し上がる、etc.) I always have a hell of a time with 存じる. And you should know how to use XXおります and XXいたします... all of that stuff.
There's always at least one reading question based on a business correspondence of some sort or another, where the letter goes on about everything but the matter at hand until the 3rd paragraph. Knowing your keigo will help decipher it.
And there's usually one or two grammar questions... so yeah, I wouldn't go too nuts trying to nail this stuff for the N1, BUT, if you want to work over there, or work with Japanese companies, then knowing your business Japanese/keigo cold is really useful.
EDIT-I forgot, there are a BUNCH of listening questions in business situations, so the usefulness of knowing business Japanese really comes out in the listening section. But that's more of a cultural business Japanese thing than a keigo thing. It's more of a "this is Japanese used in the workplace" thing. Still useful, though.
A good basic business Japanese book should teach you a lot of this stuff. Have a look at the books by 3-A (I think they're called "Business Japanese" or something like that). ALC has their しごとのにほんご books, which are okay, too.
If you want to get a 外国人向け book on keigo only, then there's にほんご警護トレーニング (ISBN: 978-4-87217-612-4), runs about 1800 yen. It's pretty good as a 警護 study textbook thing.
Or you could get one of the keigo guides made for the Japanese job-seeking audience. Those might be more useful, in that they'll help your reading comprehension more, and hand-hold you less. And they're dirt cheap. Usually only 1000 yen. Downside is that there are a ton of them, and it's hard to know which ones are good.
There's always at least one reading question based on a business correspondence of some sort or another, where the letter goes on about everything but the matter at hand until the 3rd paragraph. Knowing your keigo will help decipher it.
And there's usually one or two grammar questions... so yeah, I wouldn't go too nuts trying to nail this stuff for the N1, BUT, if you want to work over there, or work with Japanese companies, then knowing your business Japanese/keigo cold is really useful.
EDIT-I forgot, there are a BUNCH of listening questions in business situations, so the usefulness of knowing business Japanese really comes out in the listening section. But that's more of a cultural business Japanese thing than a keigo thing. It's more of a "this is Japanese used in the workplace" thing. Still useful, though.
A good basic business Japanese book should teach you a lot of this stuff. Have a look at the books by 3-A (I think they're called "Business Japanese" or something like that). ALC has their しごとのにほんご books, which are okay, too.
If you want to get a 外国人向け book on keigo only, then there's にほんご警護トレーニング (ISBN: 978-4-87217-612-4), runs about 1800 yen. It's pretty good as a 警護 study textbook thing.
Or you could get one of the keigo guides made for the Japanese job-seeking audience. Those might be more useful, in that they'll help your reading comprehension more, and hand-hold you less. And they're dirt cheap. Usually only 1000 yen. Downside is that there are a ton of them, and it's hard to know which ones are good.
Edited: 2016-01-25, 10:11 am
2016-01-25, 10:44 am
(2016-01-25, 10:07 am)rich_f Wrote: Or you could get one of the keigo guides made for the Japanese job-seeking audience. Those might be more useful, in that they'll help your reading comprehension more, and hand-hold you less. And they're dirt cheap. Usually only 1000 yen. Downside is that there are a ton of them, and it's hard to know which ones are good.
Yeah I would recommend these kinda books too.
Reading through １分間メール術 for example which Khatz recommended ages ago should give you a good idea of what a business email looks like in Japanese (reading comprehension questions).
And for keigo listening, you could watch some workplace dramas?
2016-01-25, 12:19 pm
Urk. Still waiting to hear. The "rest of the world" won't get results until Wednesday at 10am JST. (So 8pm US EST on Tuesday. Whee.)
2016-01-25, 2:30 pm
(2016-01-23, 3:23 pm)pm215 Wrote: I notice from mock tests that in the N1 grammar section there's usually a question or two on keigo. Does anybody have a good summary or reference on what keigo they expect you to know or are testing for at this level?
Besides the things Rich_f mentioned, it's also good to learn all the keigo-related special vocab. I know 拝借 was on one of the tests I took, and there are others like 愚見, 弊社, etc.
2016-01-25, 2:36 pm
(2016-01-25, 10:07 am)rich_f Wrote: If you want to get a 外国人向け book on keigo only, then there's にほんご警護トレーニング (ISBN: 978-4-87217-612-4), runs about 1800 yen. It's pretty good as a 警護 study textbook thing.
I have this book. It's okay I guess. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how to make the most of it (or most keigo-related books, really...). With normal Japanese you can practice at any time, but with keigo it's usually situational so it's harder. :\ At any rate, the book covers a variety of topics and should be enough for at least the bare minimum when trying to work. I need to start working on it again.
Also, last year my friend sent me a book titled 仕事のマナーと職場の常識 (ISBN 978-4-8399-2505-5) that her sister used. It's aimed at native Japanese people, and it's mostly focused at females (definitely noticeable when it comes to the chapter on how to dress in the workplace), but it's really cheap (200 yen on Amazon JP) and easy to consume. It covers some keigo-related topics but probably not the best thing to study from on its own.
Edited: 2016-01-25, 2:41 pm
2016-01-25, 4:13 pm
(2016-01-25, 2:36 pm)zx573 Wrote:(2016-01-25, 10:07 am)rich_f Wrote: If you want to get a 外国人向け book on keigo only, then there's にほんご警護トレーニング (ISBN: 978-4-87217-612-4), runs about 1800 yen. It's pretty good as a 警護 study textbook thing.
I have this book. It's okay I guess. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how to make the most of it (or most keigo-related books, really...). With normal Japanese you can practice at any time, but with keigo it's usually situational so it's harder. :\ At any rate, the book covers a variety of topics and should be enough for at least the bare minimum when trying to work. I need to start working on it again.
Yeah, this is probably one of those places where having a tutor or a really good conversation partner would be great.
I hate trying to remember how many させてs and whether to throw on an いただけるとありがたいんですが or whatever, but it's all part of the language. :\
2016-01-25, 6:40 pm
Mostly I'm just after brushing up on it enough to not drop a mark or two on the grammar section, and as rich_f reminded me on the listening test too; it doesn't currently seem terribly likely to me that I'll be using it in real life. Thanks to everybody for the suggestions.
2016-01-25, 7:24 pm
(2016-01-25, 12:19 pm)rich_f Wrote: Urk. Still waiting to hear. The "rest of the world" won't get results until Wednesday at 10am JST. (So 8pm US EST on Tuesday. Whee.)
Thanks for doing the math for me. I saw that it was listed in JST and was like "I should really convert that to PST ..." but never did.
2016-01-26, 12:54 am
Well, I failed the N1 by 7 points (93/180). I knew I wasn't ready, and I actually only got that many points through some lucky guessing. However, being this close gives me the confidence that I can pass in July if I really get studying.
2016-01-26, 2:31 am
Passed the JLPT N1 test with A grade.
Reading score was low, but does not matter as long as I passed with an all "A".
Reading score was low, but does not matter as long as I passed with an all "A".
2016-01-26, 8:19 pm
Passed N2! First time taking any JLPT so I'm really happy. 
言語知識: 48/60
読解: 38/60
聴解: 42/60
総合得点: 128/180
Got an A in vocab and grammar too. Nailed it!
言語知識: 48/60
読解: 38/60
聴解: 42/60
総合得点: 128/180
Got an A in vocab and grammar too. Nailed it!
2016-01-26, 8:21 pm
I passed N1!
Here are my scores (practice scores in parentheses):
言語知識: 31/60 (45/60, 40/60, 35/60, 38/60)
読解: 54/60 (40/60, 38/60, 41/60, 44/60)
聴解: 42/60 (51/60, 57/60, 48/60, 56/60)
Total: 127/180 (136/180, 135/180, 124/180, 138/180)
Vocab: A, Grammar: B
Whew. I figured my grammar score would be lower, and definitely knew my listening would be lower. Had no idea my reading comp. would be so high, because it felt like the same difficulty as my practice tests. Maybe it has to do with the normalization voodoo that they run on the scores. I'm glad the darn thing is over...
Anyway, for those interested, I'd like to humbly point them to a thread I started earlier, "2016 Beyond JLPT N1" if they found having a thread like this was useful (I certainly did!)
Here are my scores (practice scores in parentheses):
言語知識: 31/60 (45/60, 40/60, 35/60, 38/60)
読解: 54/60 (40/60, 38/60, 41/60, 44/60)
聴解: 42/60 (51/60, 57/60, 48/60, 56/60)
Total: 127/180 (136/180, 135/180, 124/180, 138/180)
Vocab: A, Grammar: B
Whew. I figured my grammar score would be lower, and definitely knew my listening would be lower. Had no idea my reading comp. would be so high, because it felt like the same difficulty as my practice tests. Maybe it has to do with the normalization voodoo that they run on the scores. I'm glad the darn thing is over...
Anyway, for those interested, I'd like to humbly point them to a thread I started earlier, "2016 Beyond JLPT N1" if they found having a thread like this was useful (I certainly did!)
2016-01-26, 8:39 pm
(2016-01-26, 8:21 pm)harahachibu Wrote: Whew. I figured my grammar score would be lower, and definitely knew my listening would be lower. Had no idea my reading comp. would be so high, because it felt like the same difficulty as my practice tests. Maybe it has to do with the normalization voodoo that they run on the scores. I'm glad the darn thing is over...I feel like it might be the normalization voodoo. I answered more questions on the reading section right than I did the listening if the leaked answers on that Chinese website were anything to go by, but I got more points for listening on the official results. Their grading makes no sense to me still but whatever, we both passed.
As for my practice results: I don't think I recorded my listening results from the official JLPT N2 practice exam, but as for the 言語知識 and 読解 sections, it was pretty much spot on. By my calculations, I would've gotten 47.754/60 on 言語知 and 39.996/60 on 読解 (round how you want). So, for me anyway, the official JLPT N2 practice exam was pretty accurate.
Edited: 2016-01-26, 8:41 pm
2016-01-26, 9:03 pm
I'm so confused. It still crashes. But I finally got to this page:
https://www.jlpt-overseas.jp/onlineresults
And they want my registration number. I have a registration number?
https://www.jlpt-overseas.jp/onlineresults
And they want my registration number. I have a registration number?
2016-01-26, 9:09 pm
(2016-01-26, 9:03 pm)ariariari Wrote: I'm so confused. It still crashes. But I finally got to this page:
https://www.jlpt-overseas.jp/onlineresults
And they want my registration number. I have a registration number?
It's on your card that you should have from when you took the test. If you lost it, go to https://jlpt.us/ and press "print voucher" and it'll be on there. Your 8 digit password is also on that website when you login.
2016-01-26, 9:19 pm
(2016-01-26, 9:09 pm)zx573 Wrote:(2016-01-26, 9:03 pm)ariariari Wrote: I'm so confused. It still crashes. But I finally got to this page:
https://www.jlpt-overseas.jp/onlineresults
And they want my registration number. I have a registration number?
It's on your card that you should have from when you took the test. If you lost it, go to https://jlpt.us/ and press "print voucher" and it'll be on there. Your 8 digit password is also on that website when you login.
Thank you! Turns out I didn't pass, as expected. But at least I didn't have to wait for the result to come by mail.