Those going, wheat and rice related Kanji.

Learning day went badly doing about 15 to 20 at a time.
First review day and I must of got 90% of them wrong the first run and missing a few on the second go.

I've never had this much problem with them before. I've had parts where a few were just weird and I was able to hammer them through but I am failing the last bit at a worse rate then moving from the book to the 3 learning steps.
Worse, I am mostly drawing a complete blank.
I suspect I am not the only one as the 2 top stories from the deck really drop in quality. Never mind that wheat and rice are insanely easy to confuse, in the past I can usually work around it with a "that one I delt with much earlier than the other one" memory.


It has me filled with a rage with every wrong one.

I know I know. I should waste my time going through the list of other stories even though every time I've done that the 2 in the deck really are the best of bunch.
I know I know I need to come up with better stories, except if I could I would.

Am I going to get ambushed again by another long string of stories that either don't stick or Kanji that are story resistant.
I am really feeling like giving up on the whole thing. I could do actual Japanese but it would just delay the final reckoning and worse with a lot of time sunk in it. I must admit it would be depressing beyond what you can imagine to give up but the aggravation and other life aspects are not exactly a good thing either.

I donno, I guess I'll keep going for a bit longer but I just don't know.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried making up your own stories?  Mine often end up depraved and perverted, but they've generally stuck with me.

(2015-12-03, 7:36 pm)Raulsen Wrote: Just out of curiosity, have you tried making up your own stories?  Mine often end up depraved and perverted, but they've generally stuck with me.

Even when I was in the earlier sections of the RTK, I often did my own stories as buddy's was pretty horrible.
Rarely I get nothing but can find something in the anki deck to work with or spur me on.

My stories tend to be extremely simple, but it doesn't work well for all of them. If it is only one or two I can usually just remember it as it sticks out. I can't stand those long winded stories I see sometimes, they aggravate me.
I am not sure why I so completely failed this time out though. Granted I was having troubles more often then normal but still.

I just passed the halfway point, past the going/rice/wheat primitives, and I'm having a similar problem. I feel your pain.

The stories are getting hazier, and I'm confusing them more often, especially the perverted ones. I forget who is doing what to whom, and with what part, and whether 'Mr. T' or 'A guy' or 'A male' or 'a girl' or a 'teen' or a 'horny teen' or 'cleopatra' or someone else was on the receiving end of this vulgar act.


However, even though I am failing more per study session, I looked at my review statistics, and my percentage remains 85%.
The same as when I started. Since there are increasingly more cards to review ( ~100 for me), 15% failure means I fail on 15 cards a day instead of 1-5. Remembering this helped me.

I mostly use the top 2 stories, and if I fail to remember the story properly twice, I make it more vivid (but keep the same story).
For instance: Podium. Soil mound, abraham lincoln's top hat, rehearsing his speech many times until night break.
I kept forgetting the soil part.

So without changing the story, I added to my mental image a short animation:

Abe walks up to the podium, and, nervous, accidentally drops his hat on the ground. When he lifts it up to his head, a bunch of dirt drops out on his head, giving the audience a laugh, which calms him down enough to give one of the greatest speeches of history.

This took a lot of words to explain, but the mental image is brief and memorable. It's important not to add words to the image, (you'll confuse with other keywords) but develop the scene as an experience in your mind.


good luck my friend! We can do this!

(2015-12-03, 7:57 pm)maelronde Wrote: For instance:  Podium.  Soil mound, abraham lincoln's top hat,   rehearsing his speech many times until night break.
I kept forgetting the soil part.

So without changing the story, I added to my mental image a short animation:  

Abe walks up to the podium, and, nervous, accidentally drops his hat on the ground. When he lifts it up to his head, a bunch of dirt drops out on his head, giving the audience a laugh, which calms him down enough to give one of the greatest speeches of history.  

This took a lot of words to explain, but the mental image is brief and memorable.


good luck my friend! We can do this!

You forgot the -times, the double square.
I always had trouble with the night break part myself. I figured an old timey sports thing with athletes in those straw hats on a soil podium but just could not remember the dawn thing for the longest while always thinking of something else.

I've had panic moments but quite frankly every single day I've had my doubts as to why I am doing this and if it is worth it. I guess today I had my breaking point [and almost broke my pen a few times]

Quote:Isn't there the double square olden times?

旧
olden times.  Walking stick + day/sun. 

Quote:I always had trouble with the night break part myself. I figured an old timey sports thing with athletes in those straw hats on a soil podium but just could not remember the dawn thing for the longest while always thinking of something else.

I picture the speech taking so long, that the sun sets in the background, but the audience is captivated the whole time. Another animation effect on my story. 

Quote:I've had panic moments but quite frankly every single day I've had my doubts as to why I am doing this and if it is worth it. I guess today I had my breaking point [and almost broke my pen a few times]

I feel ya. Maybe cut down number of new cards a day, and spend more time focusing on improving your mental image of the stories?  Gotta tailor your study experience to your own mental needs. =)

To tell myself it was worth it, I did the first 50 of core2000 sentences, and man did the Heisig Kanji help out so much. I can't wait to finish heisig to really tackle core sentences.

(2015-12-03, 8:15 pm)maelronde Wrote: To tell myself it was worth it, I did the first 50 of core2000 sentences, and man did the Heisig Kanji help out so much. I can't wait to finish heisig to really tackle core sentences.

Because of the top hat, I remembered it as olden times when it is just -times. Just to address the previous message.
Actually I managed to get olden times wrong recently, pretty sure it was a mature card. I really hate getting mature cards wrong.


I believe in the RTK concept. One of the main reasons why if I drop now it won't be to dive into actual Japanese.
What it has me questioning is the whole Japanese thing. Is it worth it.

In another thread a lot of people seem to be still at it out of sunk cost fallicy and refer to it's only use being as a party trick. I am not enough of a cunning linguist to learn a language just for it's own sake. I know a guy like that, I got the jelly for him.

1: I'll have to finish RTK and any future rage issues
2: Then I gotta tackle grammar. I really don't like grammar.
2A: Then comes loads of vocab which will involve more ANKI and more issues I assume similar to RTK
3: Then there comes the native material phase which probably won't be so bad but still
4: Then dealing with the JLPT

All that for what. I have no real interest in Japanese language material, not even in translation. Don't get me wrong, my reading and movie watching gets international but it is a big world out there.

If I don't actually move over to Japan it is pretty much a wasted effort. Sure like some have suggested here there is the party trick element but I don't go to parties so meh.

Even if I did get to Japan.
At my age it brings up a whole host of complicated tax issues.
A lot of people don't like it there.
Not that I have a social life here but it seems over there it centres around drinking and bars which isn't my bag
People work huge hours and have that whole social barrier thing going on
Some people say they never make any friends, although I assume their Japanese is weak, others say they do but they tend to be superficial only, and of those who know Japanese it seems common for them to say you are better off not knowing what people are saying... well that and you are better off going with the performing circus monkey act.
I mean blimey, I don't have to leave home to be a forever alone loser with no friends or social life. I've been doing that pretty well here at home where at least I understand things and the government will supply me with decent bank when I turn 65 or 67 depending on if Trudeau makes on his promises.
Throw in the suck of either having to get a job which I don't want or need sucking all my free time vs having to be a student again which would be doable at the cost of most of my discretionary spending in order to get a visa. Unless they extend the working via upper age range by decades or I risk riding the 3 month non visa time limit and hope they don't notice.

It would seem that spending say 4K hours to reach the JLPT N1 level which based on self reporting of test passers isn't all that proficient is a pretty risky investment considering I've never even been to Japan and if I don't stick it out for a few years, I would have no use for the language. A huge investment for what is a throw of the dice really.

Part of me doesn't want to quit. It seems to be the only out I can think of, or the best one to get some sort of life. It isn't easy to give up home, even when it seems of the forlorn type. Which BTW brings up another issue, Japanese is depressing as it reminds me what a loser I am, every time I do it. If I were a norm I doubt I'd bother with any other language.

The way you are talking begs the question why are you so interested in moving to Japan? You don't seem to be interested in Japanese culture, so why does it have to be the country with the most difficult language for english speakers to learn ? And you mention your age. Do you really want to move to a country where the language is always going to sound 'foreign' and be a bit of friction in an already difficult life? There's plenty of countries where english is spoken and would have a much easier lifestyle.

And yea, you are much closer to the beginning than you are to the end if the end for you is N1. Grammar isn't much of a hurdle compared to RTK, but you need something like 10k vocabulary for N1. That'll keep you in Ankiville for much longer than you've been studying RTK.

So what's the upside for you? Why Japan?

(2015-12-03, 10:14 pm)yogert909 Wrote: The way you are talking begs the question why are you so interested in moving to Japan?  You don't seem to be interested in Japanese culture, so why does it have to be the country with the most difficult language for english speakers to learn ?  And you mention your age.  Do you really want to move to a country where the language is always going to sound 'foreign' and be a bit of friction in an already difficult life?  There's plenty of countries where english is spoken and would have a much easier lifestyle.  

And yea, you are much closer to the beginning than you are to the end if the end for you  is N1.  Grammar isn't much of a hurdle compared to RTK, but you need something like 10k vocabulary for N1.  That'll keep you in Ankiville for much longer than you've been studying RTK.

So what's the upside for you?  Why Japan?

I already live in a country where English is spoken and it is an easy lifestyle. However I've been in my current town for over a decade and have made only one neckbeard friend who I've dropped a few years ago because I was better off alone. If you want to push the term friend, there is another one who I used to hang with about once a month till she got a demanding job which combined with family which pretty much killed all that.
Keep in mind, I am very outgoing. Sadly my university days were not much better. Many more acquaintances which was nice and some neckbeards I met via face to face roleplaying but that's it. I miss those days deeply.

I can't see anywhere in North America or for that matter Europe being much different.

Japan is modern, 1st world, not overtly polluted and is safe aside from earthquakes, typhoons and the ever present risk of tentacle rape. [Yeah that's a joke] Well there is Taiwan also but tones are even harder. Can't afford Hong Kong and Singapore. Not really feeling South Korea, or the non narco state wealthier parts of Latin America. It is also a place where by virtue of being white and english, I might have the chance of not being totally invisible and whatever else is obviously wrong won't come across as strongly. All I know is that I can't do any worse than here and I know no other way to improve things. Before any Captain Obvious steps in, yes, I've tried that. That also. Yes I looked into that other thing too.

All of which adds a layer of complexity to the whole language project. Combine an element of desperation with not having a clue if I can actually learn the language and if I do if it will pay off or not. I've actually been getting a few mild very short [under a minute] panic attacks lately. But hey, apparently I am an entitled prick for wanting social contact at least based on what the internet thinks.

I'd much rather stay here. I actually like Canada quite a bit and really don't want to leave but at the same time I'm miserable.

If you think you need to learn Japanese before you move to Japan you are wrong. You don't need to learn Japanese to live in Tokyo and if you live elsewhere you'll be somewhat forced to learn. Plenty of people have has amazing experiences both because of fluency and because of a lack of it. Your personal world-view seems to be a bigger factor than language ability.

If you come to Japan for a year you will know if you want to stay at least another year. Learning Japanese might enhance your stay here but it might also destroy it but ultimately you will have no idea if life here appeals to you until you've tried it.

As far as RTK goes you should align it with your goals. If you just want to be able to read and speak then add 10 a day, leave Anki leech settings at the default, and smash through your reviews failing as many as necessary. It doesn't matter how much you fail them because the real kanji learning comes at the vocabulary stage. RTK just gets you familiar with dissecting the components and primes your mind to be able to distinguish between known kanji and similar but unknown kanji. Writing is, like you said, just a party trick and can be learned later if you find it has economic utility.

(2015-12-04, 12:17 am)tokyostyle Wrote: If you think you need to learn Japanese before you move to Japan you are wrong. You don't need to learn Japanese to live in Tokyo and if you live elsewhere you'll be somewhat forced to learn. Plenty of people have has amazing experiences both because of fluency and because of a lack of it. Your personal world-view seems to be a bigger factor than language ability.

I am the sort of person who if I landed in Japan with minimal English, I'd be one of those guys to cocoon into any available Gaijin bubble. I spent my first 13 years in Quebec. I don't speak French. I know the sort of person I am. Granted the impression I get is that if I were to access said bubble, I'd be doing better then I am here.
However I suspect I'd do even better if I knew the local lingo and for that I'd need to get up to speed. Also my father is in his 80's and I don't see myself leaving before he pops off so I got a bit of time yet. It would be good if I could visit the place but I am not really in the position to do that for multiple reasons.
I can't really get my head around the idea of moving some place and not learning the language.

I hear you on the RTK thing. It is something I will consider.

(2015-12-03, 11:32 pm)Dudeist Wrote: I already live in a country where English is spoken and it is an easy lifestyle. However I've been in my current town for over a decade and have made only one neckbeard friend who I've dropped a few years ago because I was better off alone. If you want to push the term friend, there is another one who I used to hang with about once a month till she got a demanding job which combined with family which pretty much killed all that.
Keep in mind, I am very outgoing. Sadly my university days were not much better. Many more acquaintances which was nice and some neckbeards I met via face to face roleplaying but that's it. I miss those days deeply.

I can't see anywhere in North America or for that matter Europe being much different.

Japan is modern, 1st world, not overtly polluted and is safe aside from earthquakes, typhoons and the ever present risk of tentacle rape. [Yeah that's a joke] Well there is Taiwan also but tones are even harder. Can't afford Hong Kong and Singapore. Not really feeling South Korea, or the non narco state wealthier parts of Latin America. It is also a place where by virtue of being white and english, I might have the chance of not being totally invisible and whatever else is obviously wrong won't come across as strongly. All I know is that I can't do any worse than here and I know no other way to improve things. Before any Captain Obvious steps in, yes, I've tried that. That also. Yes I looked into that other thing too.

All of which adds a layer of complexity to the whole language project. Combine an element of desperation with not having a clue if I can actually learn the language and if I do if it will pay off or not. I've actually been getting a few mild very short [under a minute] panic attacks lately. But hey, apparently I am an entitled prick for wanting social contact at least based on what the internet thinks.

I'd much rather stay here. I actually like Canada quite a bit and really don't want to leave but at the same time I'm miserable.

Everyone's situation is different, and so there is no easy solution or a simple answer for it.  

I believe that it is alright to feel anxiety attack, frustration, anger, disillusion and a whole lot of emotion stuff, recognizing the good, bad and ugly sides in every thing.

It also takes courage and strength to change, learning to love, finding new hopes or dreams when one is at a cross-road or in outbreak of war, being forced to leave.

And if I may ask, what are you feeling miserable about?

(2015-12-03, 10:14 pm)yogert909 Wrote: The way you are talking begs the question why are you so interested in moving to Japan?  You don't seem to be interested in Japanese culture, so why does it have to be the country with the most difficult language for english speakers to learn ?  And you mention your age.  Do you really want to move to a country where the language is always going to sound 'foreign' and be a bit of friction in an already difficult life?  There's plenty of countries where english is spoken and would have a much easier lifestyle.

So what's the upside for you?  Why Japan?

I think yogert909 raised some good points such as a love for that country's culture and language.  If I may add to the list... whether one can physically adapt to the local weather as well as the local food is important for consideration.  If you don't love it, or can't adapt to that country, everyday will be like living hell as well in that country you moved to. And I have witnessed many cases like this... even for the wealthy and rich people.  

How about the Indochina countries?  I do know quite a lot of Japanese men who have chosen to spend their retirement days there.  Some of them who can't speak fluently uses this series of books - yubisashi (point-and-speak)

(2015-12-03, 11:32 pm)Dudeist Wrote: I already live in a country where English is spoken and it is an easy lifestyle. However I've been in my current town for over a decade and have made only one neckbeard friend who I've dropped a few years ago because I was better off alone.

(2015-12-03, 11:32 pm)Dudeist Wrote: Sadly my university days were not much better.

Somehow after hearing your politics I'm not surprised in the slightest about this detail.

(2015-12-03, 11:32 pm)Dudeist Wrote: 1: I'll have to finish RTK and any future rage issues
2: Then I gotta tackle grammar. I really don't like grammar.
2A: Then comes loads of vocab which will involve more ANKI and more issues I assume similar to RTK
3: Then there comes the native material phase which probably won't be so bad but still
4: Then dealing with the JLPT

All that for what. I have no real interest in Japanese language material, not even in translation. Don't get me wrong, my reading and movie watching gets international but it is a big world out there.

If you have zero interest in the language I'd go ahead and quit. You seem to be using it as a time sink to cope with some sort of midlife crisis (according to what you're saying), but you're only causing yourself pain as you can see.

Fun gets done. Boring doesn't. You'll keep running into these issues unless you have a true passion.

(2015-12-04, 12:51 am)eslang Wrote: I think yogert909 raised some good points such as a love for that country's culture and language.  If I may add to the list... whether one can physically adapt to the local weather as well as the local food is important for consideration.  If you don't love it, or can't adapt to that country, everyday will be like living hell as well in that country you moved to. And I have witnessed many cases like this... even for the wealthy and rich people.  

How about the Indochina countries?  I do know quite a lot of Japanese men who have chosen to spend their retirement days there.  Some of them who can't speak fluently uses this series of books - yubisashi (point-and-speak)

If I did go over I'd be more inclined for some place up North. I've considered the climate thing.

If I have trouble adapting to a modern country with places that have a climate similar to what I've lived with all my life, I think Indochina would be much much worse.

(2015-12-04, 1:44 am)ryuudou Wrote: Somehow after hearing your politics I'm not surprised in the slightest about this detail.

If you have zero interest in the language I'd go ahead and quit. You seem to be using it as a time sink to cope with some sort of midlife crisis (according to what you're saying), but you're only causing yourself pain as you can see.

Fun gets done. Boring doesn't. You'll keep running into these issues unless you have a true passion.

I agree with the rest but that first sentence is just beyond messed up.

To use a real life example
One from a girl who went to a local collage
her: "My friend was dragging some girl who was so drunk she could barely stand or talk back to her place but I put my foot down and brought her back to my room so she would be safe":
Me: Wait, what? Does this happen often
Her: exact words I don't remember but from what she said, it was a pretty common occurrence and although she didn't agree with it, she seemed to accept it


But hey at least those guys don't believe that people of different races react in basically similar ways to the world around them so I guess they deserve a social life unlike me.


You sir are a total asshat.

[fuaburisu]

Please take it down a notch, thank you.

(2015-12-04, 7:40 am)Dudeist Wrote: If I did go over I'd be more inclined for some place up North. I've considered the climate thing.

If I have trouble adapting to a modern country with places that have a climate similar to what I've lived with all my life, I think Indochina would be much much worse.

I see, I can understand about the climate thing.  For some of my friends who have migrated to other countries that have totally different time-zone from where they have been living half their lives, it is total chaos to their physical biorhythm even after 3-5 years, and they took sleeping pills to help them cope with their current living time-zone. Unfortunately, there are side-effects for a couple of my friends and they began to hallucinate and disrupted their behavioral patterns as well.  Well, some things are easier said than done.

It takes time to understand about other Koohii users, especially for new users since we come from different backgrounds and having diverse experiences and nonidentical culture.  Some are willing to open up and talk about themselves, so it is easier to reach a common understanding with each other.  Having said that, it takes up a lot of time and a great deal of effort to arrive at understanding each other.  Practice being patience with oneself and others, it helps to develop other aspects like social and life skills along the way.

Just a suggestion: perhaps you might like to separate and direct the anger/rant/rage/dissatisfaction at :
Example:

Quote:Off topic
My rant for the day....
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-13406.html

Addressing different issues under distinct category also help other users to know what it is about.  By lumping all the technical issues, learning techniques and other conditions into the same thread is not going to help you or other people reading the forum.

Don't sweat about the small stuff. Life is short and fragile enough.
Take it easy, mate. Relax, and plan fun-time while learning too.

Extract from Desiderata

Quote:Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be.

And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
“Max Ehrmann, "Desiderata".

You say you don't like grammar, you don't like learning vocabulary, you're frustrated with the process of learning kanji, and not only that but you also have no real interest in Japanese material, not even in translation, and you haven't made any decision about moving to Japan. 

You're not required to do any of this.  You should reevaluate why you're doing Japanese, and if you can't think of a good reason, then you should quit.

(2015-12-04, 11:09 am)James736 Wrote: You're not required to do any of this.  You should reevaluate why you're doing Japanese, and if you can't think of a good reason, then you should quit.

I think I will.

Tomorrow unless something changes I think I'll delete the ANKI decks.

Oh well at least I have a nice warm and dry basement.

As much as you didn't like that one post, Ryuudou did bring up a topic of utmost importance. The process should be fun, otherwise it'll be a struggle and innefficient.

You need true motivation to learn a language. Some people have asked me lately why I've decided Japanese, curious to know if there was a professional goal behind this. While I understand why someone would think like that, I think that's why so many people have a hard time learning a language.

The most important factor when it comes to learning a language is whether you actually want to learn it for yourself, to have fun doing activities related to that particular language, country, and culture that you admire. I want to be able to read visual novels and watch anime, so whenever I make progress and feel like I can read more, it's pretty rewarding.

So before you do anything, you should ask yourself what you'd enjoy doing that would benefit from Japanese knowledge. Find something to read or watch. If you can't find anything, yeah... maybe it's not the best of ideas to keep pushing forward with no solid motivation.

I believe that in most cases, those who "really want" to learn do learn. Those who "kinda want" to learn "kinda" learn it. And those who don't most likely won't be able to, because it's too much of a time investment.

(2015-12-04, 1:09 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: As much as you didn't like that one post, Ryuudou did bring up a topic of utmost importance. The process should be fun, otherwise it'll be a struggle and innefficient.

I didn't disagree with the language learning stuff he said, and I pointed it out. I am all about giving the props to someone regardless of any other issues.


I had motivation to learn a language, just not any particular language but considering that I had no idea if I was going down the right path or not and that I would not know till I put in the time is a bit killer on the motivation. Without the more normal motivations it just doesn't seem enough to go through the effort, and it is bloody hard. At least if you hit the gym you know you will get some results or quickly find out if you are a non responder.


I went much much further along [perhaps 80 hours] in this project then I have in any other language where I usually can't get started or give up after an hour so so. That is something at least. I have a new found confidence when it comes to second language learning even though I failed.

(2015-12-04, 1:51 pm)Dudeist Wrote: I went much much further along [perhaps 80 hours] in this project then I have in any other language where I usually can't get started or give up after an hour so so. That is something at least. I have a new found confidence when it comes to second language learning even though I failed.

Difficult times seem to be something that we all should expect. Try to incorporate more of what you understand or have learned to keep it more interesting. You seemed to have already done that . My view is that whatever method being used is not the goal, it is being able to understand or communicate.

There are different ways to learn a language. You won't find the one and only path because that doesn't exist.

Doing RTK to learn kanji in advance works, but so does learning kanji along with new vocabulary. Doing Genki works, but so does Minna no Nihongo. Doing core decks works, but it's not necessary - it's a matter of preference, just like Anki in general.

There are so many things that actually work. Which one's better? That varies from person to person. But as long as you remain motivated and spend time with the language, you will learn it. Second guessing your decisions too much, getting caught up in finding the perfect approach... that kind of stuff is detrimental, because it makes you feel discouraged in the end if you overdo it. You don't want to end up spending less time doing something that's been proven to work because you're afraid it won't. It may take longer, but it will work.

Should I do RTK or not? It's really up to you. Does it save time? Does it actually take longer? It would be nice to know that, but I don't think it matters in the end. You'll have to put in so much to learn the language that whether it takes you longer or not doesn't matter - all that matters is that it'll get you there.

The real question isn't whether you're going down the right path. After all, people have already successfully learned in the same fashion. It sounds like the real question for  you is whether it's a goal worth pursuing.

I'm definitely a perfectionist and took my sweet time to decide how I was doing to learn. I didn't know much Japanese before, but at one point I noticed there were some really efficient ways to learn the language like the ones I mentioned above. Once I decided to seriously dedicate myself to reach this goal, my decision was made for good - all I had to do was to get some suggestions and choose a path for myself. Even then, upon realizing certain things weren't necessary, I changed my approach to something I thought was more efficient - stopped adding Genki vocab to Anki, took a break from RTK but still added some kanji found in Genki, etc.

Whether I take 1000 hours to get where I want or 4000 hours isn't an important question. It may help me decided how many hours I'll study to reach my goal in a given amount of time, but I'll get there eventually. Maybe sooner, maybe later. But the most important thing by far is to put in the time (no matter what), just like anything else you want to master in life - e.g. playing an instrument, playing a game competitively, becoming good at your favorite sport, etc. As long as you learn how to learn properly and don't develop horrible habits mindlessly, it will work.

(2015-12-05, 12:23 am)FlameseeK Wrote: ...
The real question isn't whether you're going down the right path. After all, people have already successfully learned in the same fashion. It sounds like the real question for  you is whether it's a goal worth pursuing.

I'm definitely a perfectionist and took my sweet time to decide how I was doing to learn. ....

When above I mentioned the right path, I mean in terms of if the goal was worth pursuing not the actual learning process.

As for the second line. Do you have the other half of this omelet   Yeah I know, amulet, I prefer it my way.

I always saw you as a sheep ego kinda Dude/ette.

I probably spent more time planning and examining than I have to far in the language. That doesn't count the time spent figuring out the best path for Hindi, Chinese, French, Old English. I might be a slob but I have my OCD moments.



Yesterday I went to the library to get some fiction books having already made the non fiction section my female dog.
Unlike non fiction, I found the fiction section almost useless unless you know what you are looking for. A bunch of books placed by author name not style with nothing but the name on the spine to tell them apart. I've done the classics route already and know almost nothing about the modern stuff.

I came home and fired up ANKI for one more type. My failure rate dropped for new cards from about 90% to 30%

I am doubtful that learning Japanese will make my life much better but I might as well give it another shot. If I can make it work and get along the JLPT path at least it is something I could take pride in, like those 3 university degrees on my wall I never used. Still nice to have.