sparky14 Wrote:Hey everyone, here's a sentence that's giving me trouble

なぜ彼は多少でも彼女に影響力というようなものを保つことができたか

not sure about the でも, and, という, and how 多少 fits within all this for that matter.

I'd say something like: "Why was he able to maintain even just a little of what might be called 'influence' over her?" Where でも is 'even', というようなもの is 'what might be called' and 多少 is 'a little.'

ahh, I see. Thanks

Lol, I have some sentences here that I've been neglecting to ask about for a while now.

「お二人さん、仲良く一緒に登校したんだって？詳しく聞かしてくれよー。」
「ちょっとやめてよ！彼とは、たまたま寮が一緒ってだけ。何でもそういう話に結び付けすぎだっての。」
This sentence kind of confuses me. Particularly the だって. The way Ive been thinking about it, Ive been thinking it either だって or　だ+って？Ive been leaning toward だ+って,But I could be wrong.

家に帰りたくないからってブラブラしていたら、いつの間にやら日は落ちて、すっかり夜になっていた。
Is this just から+って or the からって here:
http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%8B%E...3%E3%81%A6
Feels like to former to me, but I don't think Ive seen からって before now.

本人が喜んでいるのに、水を差すのもヤボというものか。
How would you break this down? The のも and ものか in particular are giving me trouble

またまた赤点スレスレだったくせに、終業式が終わったくらいではしゃがない！
Is it being said that he failed by a small margin or that he just barely managed not to fail? I'm inclined to think later but the sentence seems to imply to former and that give me a red flag so I wonder what you guys thought.

I have another question This time it's about でなく and ではなく, for example in these two sentences:

外国へ行くとしたら、ただの旅行ではなく、勉強を目的として行きたい。(this one showed up while googling ではなく grammar )

死体は堅いばかりでな く、ぴょんぴょん跳ぶことができるから、そんなような名前をつけられました。 (This one is about vampires, I found it in a reading from the chokochoko library)

I understand their role as linkers, but what are they grammatically? Is that なく related to ない and if so how?

なく would be a 連用形 of 補助形容詞「ない」

If you don't mind me asking, where did you learn that? I mean considering how often it shows up I would say it's a pretty fundamental concept, and yet I've never read about the stems of adjectives in the various books I studied from N5 all the way to N1, so I guess it's one of those things that were sort of taken for granted in the Genki series. Could you please tell me where I can learn more about them? For example is this topic covered in any one of the three grammar dictionaries by Makino and Tsutsui?

Kuroro Wrote:If you don't mind me asking, where did you learn that? I mean considering how often it shows up I would say it's a pretty fundamental concept, and yet I've never read about the stems of adjectives in the various books I studied from N5 all the way to N1, so I guess it's one of those things that were sort of taken for granted in the Genki series. Could you please tell me where I can learn more about them? For example is this topic covered in any one of the three grammar dictionaries by Makino and Tsutsui?

It's in DIJ, p 148. I think they cover it somewhere in Genki II.

Thank you Ash_S and yudantaiteki, I read the entry in DIJ and I think that in Genki they only explained its usage as an adverb, although I didn't check so maybe I had simply forgotten about it actually being a stem.

This is more of a general question rather than a "what does this mean" question, but I recently wrote on lang-8 "いや、昨日の話を忘れてくれ" and it was corrected as ”いや、昨日の話は忘れてくれ”. Would anyone mind explaining this to me please? I don't understand why it would be "は" instead of "を"?

The quick and dirty on は is that it says something about this thing, and pretty specifically not something about other things.

There was a corner called ガサ入れ on London Boots TV show that used to go into girl's houses to see if they were cheating on their boyfriends, and ask questions, and search for stuff.

The girl would be asked if they had cheated on their boyfriend with Akira, and they would without thinking say Akira とは浮気してない.

And the TV 字幕 would put the big attention dot above the は that said plainly yep she just plainly admitted cheating by putting that は there. She did 浮気, just not with Akira.

And the great thing about the show, is that it taught は like nothing I have ever seen.

By going through some poor girl's underwear drawer and reading through the texts on her 携帯.

kapalama Wrote:The quick and dirty on は is that it says something about this thing, and pretty specifically not something about other things.

There was a corner called ガサ入れ on London Boots TV show that used to go into girl's houses to see if they were cheating on their boyfriends, and ask questions, and search for stuff.

The girl would be asked if they had cheated on their boyfriend with Akira, and they would without thinking say Akira とは浮気してない.

And the TV 字幕 would put the big attention dot above the は that said plainly yep she just plainly admitted cheating by putting that は there. She did 浮気, just not with Akira.

And the great thing about the show, is that it taught は like nothing I have ever seen.

By going through some poor girl's underwear drawer and reading through the texts on her 携帯.

Ha! That's pretty funny. But I thought that saying "昨日の話を忘れてくれ" would mean the same thing. Doesn't を mark what you're asking them to forget? Or are you saying that it also implies maybe forgetting something else?

HolyKotor Wrote:This is more of a general question rather than a "what does this mean" question, but I recently wrote on lang-8 "いや、昨日の話を忘れてくれ" and it was corrected as ”いや、昨日の話は忘れてくれ”. Would anyone mind explaining this to me please? I don't understand why it would be "は" instead of "を"?

You may already know that 昨日の話を忘れてくれ is essentially an answer to a question "what should I forget", more precisely, "OK, I am to forget something, but what should it be?" while 昨日の話は忘れてくれ is one to "how should I treat Yesterday's story" or "OK, I know Yesterday's story, but what should I do to it".

Now, what is the context that's spoken? Wasn't the speaker just talking about what happened the day before? (Or rather, you'll probably find out that a situation in which いや、昨日の話を忘れてくれ works is quite limited.)

What native speakers think when they hear 昨日の話を忘れてくれ is not that 昨日の話 is the object of 忘れてくれ but that 昨日の話 is not topicalized.

Quote:You may already know that 昨日の話を忘れてくれ is essentially an answer to a question "what should I forget", more precisely, "OK, I am to forget something, but what should it be?" while 昨日の話は忘れてくれ is one to "how should I treat Yesterday's story" or "OK, I know Yesterday's story, but what should I do to it".

Now, what is the context that's spoken? Wasn't the speaker just talking about what happened the day before? (Or rather, you'll probably find out that a situation in which いや、昨日の話を忘れてくれ works is quite limited.)

What native speakers think when they hear 昨日の話を忘れてくれ is not that 昨日の話 is the object of 忘れてくれ but that 昨日の話 is not topicalized.

Ahh, that makes more sense. Alright, thank you!

Can anyone help with this passage from Musashi.
I've looked everywhere and still don't know the meaning of 迷雲 or how to read it. It pops up as part of someones name and in the Cantonese versions of nicholas cage films. I'm guessing Nicholas Cage wasn't in musashi (we can only wish).

Here is the sentence it is in そして伊吹山の背や、美濃の連山を去来するその黒い迷雲から時々、サアーッと四里四方にもわたる白雨が激戦の跡を洗ってゆく。

and here is the full first page


――どうなるものか、この天地の大きな動きが。
　もう人間の個々の振舞いなどは、秋かぜの中の一片の木の葉でしかない。なるようになッてしまえ。
　武蔵は、そう思った。
　屍と屍のあいだにあって、彼も一個の屍かのように横たわったまま、そう観念していたのである。
「――今、動いてみたッて、仕方がない」
　けれど、実は、体力そのものが、もうどうにも動けなかったのである。武蔵自身は、気づいていないらしいが、体のどこかに、二つ三つ、銃弾が入っているに違いなかった。
　ゆうべ。――もっと詳しくいえば、慶長五年の九月十四日の夜半から明け方にかけて、この関ヶ原地方へ、土砂ぶりに大雨を落した空は、今日の午すぎになっても、まだ低い密雲を解かなかった。そして伊吹山の背や、美濃の連山を去来するその黒い迷雲から時々、サアーッと四里四方にもわたる白雨が激戦の跡を洗ってゆく。
　その雨は、武蔵の顔にも、そばの死骸にも、ばしゃばしゃと落ちた。武蔵は、鯉のように口を開いて、鼻ばしらから垂れる雨を舌へ吸いこんだ。
　――末期の水だ。

rantony420 Wrote:…

I would translate 迷雲（めいうん） as foreboding clouds. For a related vocabulary you can look at 暗雲低迷. It doesn't contain the word per se, but it might aid you in grasping the feeling of the word, and the characters making it up.

Taishi Wrote:

rantony420 Wrote:…

I would translate 迷雲（めいうん） as foreboding clouds. For a related vocabulary you can look at 暗雲低迷. It doesn't contain the word per se, but it might aid you in grasping the feeling of the word, and the characters making it up.

Thanks. I was starting to think it meant lost or wondering cloud but that makes no sense.
Where did you get the reading and meaning from, just out of curiosity? I have daijirin and wisdom dictionaries but it didn't turn up in either? I'm starting to think that there is a dictionary for old words.

I have a question about a grammar pattern.

I'm now studying N2 grammar and I'm seeing that many grammar points that begin with という (particle と + verb いう) and even many grammar points that begin with only the particle と all connect with verbs, nouns and adjectives using this pattern...

verb + grammar point (e.g. 否定したということは)
noun + だ + grammar point (e.g. 犬だというのに)
な-adjective + だ + grammar point (e.g. 効果的だとしたら)
い-adjective + grammar point (e.g. 高いとすれば)

But this pattern doesn't hold up for というわけではない, which doesn't call for だ between noun and grammar point.

否定したというわけではない
犬というわけではない (no だ)
効果的だというわけではない
高いというわけではない

Is this last grammar point an exception to the pattern? Or is there no actual pattern here and I have just only found some grammar points that just happen to begin with と and to connect with verbs, nouns and adjectives similarly?

rantony420 Wrote:

Taishi Wrote:

rantony420 Wrote:…

I would translate 迷雲（めいうん） as foreboding clouds. For a related vocabulary you can look at 暗雲低迷. It doesn't contain the word per se, but it might aid you in grasping the feeling of the word, and the characters making it up.

Thanks. I was starting to think it meant lost or wondering cloud but that makes no sense.
Where did you get the reading and meaning from, just out of curiosity? I have daijirin and wisdom dictionaries but it didn't turn up in either? I'm starting to think that there is a dictionary for old words.

To be honest I didn't get the reading from anywhere, I've just been learning so much vocab that I can often simply get a feeling for a word without looking it up. This time in particular I used context in combination with the fact that I immediately came to think of 暗雲低迷 to help me interpret the meaning. 音読み was simply the most likely candidate for the reading. Theoretically I guess it could also be pronounced よまいぐも or have some 当て字 reading, but I deemed the likelihood of that to be extremely low.

In other words, I used experience.

HolyKotor Wrote:

kapalama Wrote:The quick and dirty on は is that it says something about this thing, and pretty specifically not something about other things.

There was a corner called ガサ入れ on London Boots TV show that used to go into girl's houses to see if they were cheating on their boyfriends, and ask questions, and search for stuff.

The girl would be asked if they had cheated on their boyfriend with Akira, and they would without thinking say Akira とは浮気してない.

And the TV 字幕 would put the big attention dot above the は that said plainly yep she just plainly admitted cheating by putting that は there. She did 浮気, just not with Akira.

And the great thing about the show, is that it taught は like nothing I have ever seen.

By going through some poor girl's underwear drawer and reading through the texts on her 携帯.

Ha! That's pretty funny. But I thought that saying "昨日の話を忘れてくれ" would mean the same thing. Doesn't を mark what you're asking them to forget? Or are you saying that it also implies maybe forgetting something else?

What happens here is that when you have を followed by は, を disappears. Think of it as a combination like "では" or "には", only the を is dropped.

Taishi Wrote:

rantony420 Wrote:

Taishi Wrote:I would translate 迷雲（めいうん） as foreboding clouds. For a related vocabulary you can look at 暗雲低迷. It doesn't contain the word per se, but it might aid you in grasping the feeling of the word, and the characters making it up.

Thanks. I was starting to think it meant lost or wondering cloud but that makes no sense.
Where did you get the reading and meaning from, just out of curiosity? I have daijirin and wisdom dictionaries but it didn't turn up in either? I'm starting to think that there is a dictionary for old words.

To be honest I didn't get the reading from anywhere, I've just been learning so much vocab that I can often simply get a feeling for a word without looking it up. This time in particular I used context in combination with the fact that I immediately came to think of 暗雲低迷 to help me interpret the meaning. 音読み was simply the most likely candidate for the reading. Theoretically I guess it could also be pronounced よまいぐも or have some 当て字 reading, but I deemed the likelihood of that to be extremely low.

In other words, I used experience.

I bought the first part of the audiobook and you were right. (Not that I didn't believe you, I just wanted the audio book . )

Hey everyone, having trouble with this sentence
暗い相談ばかりを選んで持ち懸けられるやうな不平を感じたりするのだ

The long chain of verbs is throwing me off 選んで持ち懸けられる, in fact, long chains of verbs usually throw me off. Don't really know how they work...

Thanks!

sparky14 Wrote:Hey everyone, having trouble with this sentence
暗い相談ばかりを選んで持ち懸けられるやうな不平を感じたりするのだ

The long chain of verbs is throwing me off 選んで持ち懸けられる, in fact, long chains of verbs usually throw me off. Don't really know how they work...

Thanks!

What's the context? It's only two verbs--選ぶ and 持ち掛ける. 持ち掛ける means to approach with an idea or proposal; usually the kanji for かける would be 掛 rather than 懸. Also, I think you typoed--isn't it ような not やうな.

横を向いて、間の抜けた顔をしてゐるばかりだつた。 暗い相談ばかりを選んで持ち懸けられるような不平を感じたりするのだ。Is the full context

Just bumping my question in case someone who knows might have missed it. Have a nice Sunday!

Keyboarder Wrote:I have a question about a grammar pattern.

I'm now studying N2 grammar and I'm seeing that many grammar points that begin with という (particle と + verb いう) and even many grammar points that begin with only the particle と all connect with verbs, nouns and adjectives using this pattern...

verb + grammar point (e.g. 否定したということは)
noun + だ + grammar point (e.g. 犬だというのに)
な-adjective + だ + grammar point (e.g. 効果的だとしたら)
い-adjective + grammar point (e.g. 高いとすれば)

But this pattern doesn't hold up for というわけではない, which doesn't call for だ between noun and grammar point.

否定したというわけではない
犬というわけではない (no だ)
効果的だというわけではない
高いというわけではない

Is this last grammar point an exception to the pattern? Or is there no actual pattern here and I have just only found some grammar points that just happen to begin with と and to connect with verbs, nouns and adjectives similarly?

just thinking of some other grammar points with と that don't require だ after a noun...
・とはいえ
・といえども
・とはいうものの